Code Zero

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

She must trust you. What's wrong with her?[emoji6]

It was actually pretty bad, lots of water over the bow and we kept getting spray in the cockpit, which on my boat takes a lot as she has a lot of freeboard and the windage that goes along with it, but she couldn't sleep in the cockpit with all the intermittent getting wet.

She had taken one of those pills Ann recommends and maybe that is what made her be able to handle it, but when she went down below, I thought Oh God, next time I'm going to see her she will be heaving her guts out, but it never happened.
I on the other point was on the edge of being sick, 28 hour trip that I was awake and on watch for the whole time, I napped some with them on watch, but I couldn't handle going below, or I would have been heaving my guts

[JPA Cate]

A64, if she had taken Stugeron, it sometimes makes me drowsy, and I have a nap, never more than an hour (one sleep cycle and some lag time), sometimes only /2 hr. and bullet proof thereafter. Jim uses it too. The 15 mg. ones. The agreement when I go below, is "call me if you want me," and of course, Jim used to singlehand race, i.e. he is comfortable up there alone.

Ann

[a64pilot]

It was Stugeron, and she was down for the count, all night or most of it anyway.
She has taken it once or twice before without any real drowsiness.
However Dramamine puts her out, my Son used to joke that we wouldn't see her again until after we got there. She must have a clear conscious cause she can naturally sleep hours longer than I can, usually leg pain gets me up every few hours.

[savoir]

I recommend against getting a Code 0 but not against getting anything at all.

The reason is that the useful range of the Code 0 is too narrow for most cruisers who are limited by budget and storage space. You would have to take it down at around 8 or 9 knots. On top of that a Code 0 will have a pretty broad head angle leaving it twitchy and requiring constant trimming attention. A sail with a narrower head angle is a little less powerful but it can be cleated off and sailed up to 12 - 15 knots. Every sailmaker has this kind of thing and they are most often called gennakers. You would probably want 2.2 or 2.5 oz cloth. They can be carried forward to about 50 apparent which is not quite a close winded as a true Code 0.

When faced with this decision 2 years ago I chose a Doyle UPS.

Advantages of a gennaker over a Code 0 : wider wind range, easier to trim, no need for huge halyard loads
Disadvantages : slightly less power, not so close winded

[Kestrahl]

Originally Posted by savoir

I recommend against getting a Code 0 but not against getting anything at all.

The reason is that the useful range of the Code 0 is too narrow for most cruisers who are limited by budget and storage space. You would have to take it down at around 8 or 9 knots. On top of that a Code 0 will have a pretty broad head angle leaving it twitchy and requiring constant trimming attention. A sail with a narrower head angle is a little less powerful but it can be cleated off and sailed up to 12 - 15 knots. Every sailmaker has this kind of thing and they are most often called gennakers. You would probably want 2.2 or 2.5 oz cloth. They can be carried forward to about 50 apparent which is not quite a close winded as a true Code 0.

When faced with this decision 2 years ago I chose a Doyle UPS.

Advantages of a gennaker over a Code 0 : wider wind range, easier to trim, no need for huge halyard loads
Disadvantages : slightly less power, not so close winded

We're talking about cruising code zeros. They are about as versatile as you get. Can tight reach, broad reach and pole out downwind. The head angle is narrow and sail is stable. Doyles UPS is more or less a similar sort of sail, but maybe without the straight luff and torsion rope?

Some racing code zeros designed around certain rating rules are horrible flappy leech unstable sails as you describe as they are trying to comply to girth rules

[UNCIVILIZED]

Man, I REALLY wish they'd come up with another name for "cruising code 0s". As without such, things have been a never ending fuster cluck. They should simply be called reacher/reaching spinnakers, which is what they are. A (true) code 0 is a completely different animal.

When in doubt, refer to the North Sails spinnaker wind angle chart --> North Sails: Downwind Sail Performance Guide 2012

[B00B00]

The actual term code zero really is a very broad term and means different things depending on where you are in the world and what type of sailing you are doing. I would consider anything under 75% midgirth to be a code zero (like a big geona) and anything over 75% midgirth to be an 'A' zero as it measures as a asymmetric. But i know this interpretation is different for other people and only applys to racing boats who dont want the rating penalty. For cruising you can simply target any wind angle and design the sail to that. Normally the midgirth is not much more than about 60% for a nice stable sail with a wide wind range.

[JPA Cate]

A64,

You must be about to the information overload point, but, someone above mentioned a "gennaker". Jim used to have one of those for his Yankee 30, so I remember a little. He used it from close to 60 deg. apparent to about 150, iirc. It had an adjustable line to the tack, so that he could set it higher when needs be. It was not as good as the spinny he made (see CF archives, I've written about it before) for sailing lower.

When you're cruising, you mostly want to go to where you want to stop for the night. Therefore, you're basically interested in the VMG to the WP closest to the stopping point. We rarely fly a full shouldered kite at sea, usually the swell is too big, but you could use a gennaker in some of those conditions. There are times when your 135 will do better VMG wise, and times when a gennaker might. I don't envy you the position you're in, wanting to make it all top ship shape for the short term cruising, but i think you're going to have to experiment with your boat, as she is fitted out, to come to what's best, and you might not hit it right first time out. I hope you have space for that. There's always the next sailmaker, when you know better how you actually use the boat while cruising. I really think you should put this on hold till you've a season or two, so you know how you use your boat, and can communicate that with authority to the sailmaker. I know the P's, but you can't know what's in the future: experience will inform future choices. You can't help not knowing what you don't know, and all that stuff is learned from doing. Only so much you can get out of manuals. Think of it a minute: are there accurate enough words to tell you how to fly a helicopter?

The study of sails, in depth, takes a while, though fortunately, flight simulators aren't needed. Each boat is a bit different. All boats like to sail at 60 deg apparent. You need to learn a whole lot about about those airfoils and how they affect your very own boat.

Ann

[UNCIVILIZED]

To follow on to Ann's comments. You can fly a symetrical spinnaker at say 70 apparent or so using little more than an adjustable tackline & a "Tacker". The OEM version, or a DIY affair. So there's no shortage of options.

You might try crewing on a few different racing boats to get a better feel for what you might like, & what the pro's & con's of each sail are. Wednesday night Beer Can Series's are great for picking up skills & knowledge like this in a fairly low stress environment.

[xslim]

Can you put Code 0 and Spinnaker on same furling drum / head attachment?
Anyone has done it?

[sailorboy1]

Hey I've flown my achute the last 3 times out. Yesterday it was we when we traveling 180 degrees different than the time before at the same spot offshore. So instead of motoring at 5 knots we were sailing at 3. This lasted a few hours till the wind saw what we doing and clocked back around. Then we were still sailing at 4 knots with normal sails.

In the end only you can decide if spending money and losing storage space is worth those couple of hours.

[daletournier]

I purchased a jib top reacher for my last boat, I believe it to be similar to a code zero, just higher clew? I never used my asymmetrical again, the jib top reacher was just more versatile. It really was often the difference between motoring or not.

On my current boat I have a asymmetrical, it is so large that I haven't bothered dragging it out on deck. I intend to purchase a code zero on a furler based on my previous experience.

The big thing to me is ease of use, or I just wont use it, as I currently don't use my assymetrical, as lazy as that may seem.

[savoir]

Perhaps a sock would help ?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by savoir

Perhaps a sock would help ?

Its in a sock, still huge. I want a roll in and roll out situation. Although I understand the implications of even a light UV strip I'll probably go that way in order to leave it up abit longer. If its not easy it dosent get used.

[barnakiel]

On a cruising boat, except if she is a specific design, a pure modern zero is waste of money. But a zero-like genoa will find great use if your sailing area is in some lighter zones. Many lofts provide 'cruising code zeroes' designed and planned for just that.

So my answer is a qualified yes. Just do not copy that IMOCA design because you are not likely to be cruising in an IMOCA hull. Sails must be matched with hull performance. Racy sails in a cruising hull are only half good. Ask any sailmaker.

Cheers,
b.