Code Zero

[a64pilot]

Wind angle wise, I'm happy with the 60 to 180 apparent as advertised.
I will try not to pinch this guy too much as I don't think it can handle that. I was primarily looking for a downwind solution that I could handle myself and was initially going for wing on wing with twin headsails, but see no reason why if winds are light I could not run both my 135 and the code zero with the Genoa poled out?

[UNCIVILIZED]

FWIW in the past I’ve had the loft stitch a Kevlar luff tape onto a 150% jib, or even a cut down jib from yet a bigger boat, to make a bastardized Code 0/reacher. And then flown it free flying on some pre-loved, big boat staysail/screecher furling gear. http://www.harken.com/productcategory.aspx?taxid=537
Not the prettiest package, but definitely workable. Especially if you’re on a tight budget.

I don’t exactly have a huge amount of experience flying twin jibs downwind compared to some, but I know that if the seas are lumpy, at times it’s mandatory to put each jib on it’s own pole. As the waves will slew your stern enough so that one of the jibs is by the lee, & tries to gybe over to the other side. Which, a pole will keep it from succeeding in this. But without one, it’s a crap shoot. Maybe someone else has a few thinks on this?

The other thing is that if it’s super light in terms of wind, sometimes you have no choice but to sail hotter angles in order to keep the sails full. Which means going with only one foresail, or a big jib/asym & a staysail.Along with your main.

Yes, you wind up sailing a bit further, but often enough the better VMG makes up for it. And regardless, it’s better than doing 1kt with the sails slatting, & the boom fighting with the preventer.Since it keeps you moving well, & pressure in the sails.Plus, hopefully, fast enough to stay ahead of the bugs.


EDIT: To address Ann's concerns In terms of gear for flying your kite, & or the kite plus a jib on the same side. If you have a strongly mounted set of stern mooring cleats, or a padeye. You can cow hitch a Spectra loop through the cleats, & then attach a block to the loop. Then, if you can, attach some bungee through the center of the block, or to it’s becket & clip it to the lifeline, so that it doesn’t bang on the deck.

Either that, or barring an OEM standup block, cut a short piece of hose the height of the block’s shackle, & slip it over the shackle when attaching the block to the padeye. Again, to prevent the block from banging on the deck. That noise gets old FAST when you’re off watch, & trying to sleep.

[Jim Cate]

I don’t exactly have a huge amount of experience flying twin jibs downwind compared to some, but I know that if the seas are lumpy, at times it’s mandatory to put each jib on it’s own pole. As the waves will slew your stern enough so that one of the jibs is by the lee, & tries to gybe over to the other side. Which, a pole will keep it from succeeding in this. But without one, it’s a crap shoot. Maybe someone else has a few thinks on this?

Unciv, on our previous boat (old IOR one tonner) we had a K-Z foil which made it very easy to run two headsails, and we did a lot of miles that way in the trades. Our practice was to hoist two genoas, size selected to suit wind strength (this is pre-furling days, so we had a selection of headsails). Only having one pole, we'd pole out the windward sail and use the leeward sail sheeted normally. We'd put two reefs in the main to really flatten it and sheet it hard amidships to help roll damping. Worked quite well, and even with a somewhat vague aux rudder wind vane steering, the sails stayed full and the boat went pretty straight.

Not so easy to do with our current boat... furlers on both genoa and Solent jib, big main sail, but when sailing at ~150 to 110 deg apparent in light airs we will pole the genoa out to windward, sheet the Solent to leeward and get the main out as far as our sweptback spreaders will allow. This gives a noticeable boost over just wing and wing with the genoa. (I know we should set the kite under these conditions, but as old farts we seldom do that these days!).

Jim

[Snowpetrel]

Unciv, I've also found you can get away with one pole. Normally I pole the smaller sail out to windward and sail about 10-20 degrees up from a dead run. The poled out sail blows air across to keep the unpoled out leeward sail full.

With a code zero O would set it to leeward, and prehaps sheet it off the eased out main boom if is was cut right. I often leave the main set as well, there usually seems to be enough crossflow to keep the leeward unpoled headsail set even when it should be in the lee of the main.

This is a fast and comfortable combination that helps the boat track straight and doesn't encourage heavy rolling. The only issues are the work involved to gybe the whole setup.

[thinwater]

I'd go for a chute with a pole. A code zero won't go far below a beam reach, and with a cutter, you are already well-canvassed. A chute will go deep. I also consider a chute to be a light air sail for cruisers, since you have enough power once the wind kicks up.

With a cat the pole is not needed, which probably prejudices my experience. A bridle will bring the tack to windward. I also sail in an area that seems to require a lot of windward/leeward sailing.

[a64pilot]

It is apparently cut so that it can be sheeted off the boom, as Travis recommended that if necessary.
I hadn't though of using the main boom for that.

[sailorboy1]

For a cruiser one of the things to consider when deciding to spend $$$$$ on a light wind sail is to figure out how much diesel that would buy.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

For a cruiser one of the things to consider when deciding to spend $$$$$ on a light wind sail is to figure out how much diesel that would buy.

SB, you could make the same argument about the mast, boom and working sails. There is more to life and to cruising than the fiscal bottom line.

Some folks prefer to sail and are willing to spend the dollars to achieve that. Accountants don't always make good cruisers!

Jim

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

SB, you could make the same argument about the mast, boom and working sails. There is more to life and to cruising than the fiscal bottom line.

Some folks prefer to sail and are willing to spend the dollars to achieve that. Accountants don't always make good cruisers!

Jim

Agreed which is why I see sailboats that removed their rigging and are now just power boats.

BTW - I got into sailing because I didn't think I could afford the fuel on a power boat. Have you ever done the math on how far you can motor for the cost of sails?

I like flying my spinnaker but don't know if it hadn't come with the boat that I would pay money for it now that I know how few times we get to use it. Same reason I keep talking out of getting a furling system for it instead of the sock.

[a64pilot]

If I get to realize may aspirations, it's a distance that can't realistically be motored, reason I have a sailboat.
I first started looking into this with a powerboat in mind, problem is one large enough to cross the Pacific is out of my reach financially, unless I was willing to work for a few more years. I wasn't.
From a financial perspective if one only wanted to cruise the ICW and occasionally the islands, then a sailboat may not make much sense, there are a lot of places with draft and air draft that I cannot go, but with a nice trawler, I could.

Plus something I have never seen here on this forum is how much an hour does an engine cost? In flying it's common and always calculated as an operational cost. For instance if TBO is 2000 hours and an overhaul is 30K, then an engine cost 15$ an hour to run, over and above all maintenance and fuel costs.
Typical life of a sailboat engine I'm going to assume is 5,000 hours as age etc take their toll too, yes some may get twice that and many less, so just for arguments sake use 5000 hours.
What does an engine cost? I think I have heard about $25K although I have never priced one, but if that is true, then an engine cost $5 every hour you run it plus maintenance and fuel.

However for me although this is my first sailboat and she is no performer I know, but I have come to enjoy sailing. As I have posted many times I have a love hate relationship with the baby Yanmar, I love how reliable and dependable and fuel stingy it is, but hate running the thing, the noise is just obnoxious, sailing is so much nicer and peaceful and enjoyable.
So I've set out to within reason and within my crews capabilities to maximize sailing as much as possible and it would seem to do that one way is to as much as possible maximize light wind performance.
Maybe I should have mentioned in that other thread about how close to the wind she can sail, that the headsails are new, one year old?

[RTB]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

For a cruiser one of the things to consider when deciding to spend $$$$$ on a light wind sail is to figure out how much diesel that would buy.

Looking at where some of us are (me, A64pilot, and sailorboy1), I agree with SB. Probably going to motor a lot, and the winds, much of the time is not going to favor the code 0.

How much actual use will A64 actually use that sail? If A64 plans to head to the Bahamas, or farther down to the Islands, it's mostly a beat to windward. Coming back, if that's the plan would be different. I'd say, for now, save the boat bucks.....do some cruising, and figure out for yourself if that sail would be useful for you with the winds you experience. If you can pole out your genoa, you're probably good, at least from my experience. Never have considered extra sails for all conditions. Also, not afraid to run the diesel to get where I want to go.

I respect Jim Cate, but not everyone is doing long passages on the Pacific. Maybe not even long passages. The trades are typically more than 15 knots from the east (on this coast). Maybe less in the summer, but who is cruising the Caribbean during hurricane season? I'd put the money elsewhere myself, at least until you've cruised the area extensively. Just my 2 cents.

[a64pilot]

Add up the money I have spent on rigging and three new sails this year, plus chainplates and I think you would get a number that is larger than the fuel bill would be for as long as I own the boat.
So yes unless you aspire to cover long distances I don't think you can make a financial case for a sailboat

[a64pilot]

Time will tell, but it's good for at least 60 apparent and I have been told down to 45.
My boats sweet spot now with the Genoa and Staysail and main, is 60 apparent, so it seems that most of the sailing I do now, I will be able to do with the code zero.
Plan is to start out in the Caribbean, and then head further. I do not know if after the first year whether we will come back to the States for next years Storm season or head further South to escape it.
If we make it to the Pacific, it's my understanding that is a long downwind run. I say if as who knows what the future holds for us.
I thought that the better half would be the limiting factor, but on a trip we just made with wind and current opposing and me right at the edge of getting sick myself, she went down below in the sweltering heat and fell asleep. I couldn't handle being below, make me sick if I did.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I thought that the better half would be the limiting factor, but on a trip we just made with wind and current opposing and me right at the edge of getting sick myself, she went down below in the sweltering heat and fell asleep. I couldn't handle being below, make me sick if I did.

That is very good news.

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I thought that the better half would be the limiting factor, but on a trip we just made with wind and current opposing and me right at the edge of getting sick myself, she went down below in the sweltering heat and fell asleep. I couldn't handle being below, make me sick if I did.

She must trust you. What's wrong with her?[emoji6]