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Old 26-07-2023, 08:50   #106
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Nahh, heat it until you see the epoxy boil a bit, and then whackkk!!!



Wear a good mask, it's very fast, you won't be exposed to almost anything.


I think the almost part that is difficult
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Old 26-07-2023, 09:01   #107
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I think the almost part that is difficult
Bingo. Expose one of those peanut allergy people to almost no peanuts. They die sometimes.

This is a huge risk.

I’m thinking I can do this at the stern on a windy day at the waterline. I could wear full hazmat and supplied air breathing.

Would it destroy the metal’s integrity to quench it in the water after I get it apart?

Also, is epoxy *required* for Norseman fittings or optional?

I’m definitely not bringing any on board or using any. Not worth dying to get a rig up
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Old 26-07-2023, 09:22   #108
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Bingo. Expose one of those peanut allergy people to almost no peanuts. They die sometimes.

This is a huge risk.

Iím thinking I can do this at the stern on a windy day at the waterline. I could wear full hazmat and supplied air breathing.

Would it destroy the metalís integrity to quench it in the water after I get it apart?

Also, is epoxy *required* for Norseman fittings or optional?

Iím definitely not bringing any on board or using any. Not worth dying to get a rig up
If you put it in the water when it is very hot you run the risk of breaking the cone.

Epoxy is not required when you assemble it.
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Old 26-07-2023, 09:28   #109
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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If you put it in the water when it is very hot you run the risk of breaking the cone.

Epoxy is not required when you assemble it.
Thatís good news about the reassembly.

Also, I guess I will just wait for a natural cool down in the air and do it on a day where there is a breeze to get the fumes away from the boat.

Thanks!
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Old 26-07-2023, 10:59   #110
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

OK, more novice questions about Norseman:

1) are they out of business? It kind of looks like it.

2) If yes to #1, how can I source the parts I need?
I see someone makes the cones for my 14mm Dyform stainless wire using Norseman hardware, but I need a turnbuckle and two forks. Where can I get these? Can I substitute Stalock forks and turnbuckles or will they not thread on correctly?

Lots of questions. I like to figure it all out before I get involved in it so it goes more quickly


Edit: question number two might be a dumb question. I guess I can use any turnbuckle that will thread on. Doesn’t even need to be all of this fancy stuff. I was getting a little wrapped up in the Norseman world.

VERY difficult to find anything in 7/8” or 22mm however
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Old 26-07-2023, 12:42   #111
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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OK, more novice questions about Norseman:

1) are they out of business? It kind of looks like it.

2) If yes to #1, how can I source the parts I need?
I see someone makes the cones for my 14mm Dyform stainless wire using Norseman hardware, but I need a turnbuckle and two forks. Where can I get these? Can I substitute Stalock forks and turnbuckles or will they not thread on correctly?

Lots of questions. I like to figure it all out before I get involved in it so it goes more quickly

Edit: question number two might be a dumb question. I guess I can use any turnbuckle that will thread on. Doesn’t even need to be all of this fancy stuff. I was getting a little wrapped up in the Norseman world.

VERY difficult to find anything in 7/8” or 22mm however
Please read my earlier posts in this thread about Norseman. I explained what happened and where to buy the cones incl. those for Dyform. If you need more parts then simply replace the fitting with a Stalok.

But… you have that turnbuckle, right? I sure hope so, because: https://www.riggingandhardware.com/p...le-78efbj.aspx

Hayn is probably the most expensive brand.

On that same site you can find parts like just the body, forks etc. I had linked that site earlier as well, it’s an online resource for buying rigging parts.
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Old 26-07-2023, 13:05   #112
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Please read my earlier posts in this thread about Norseman. I explained what happened and where to buy the cones incl. those for Dyform. If you need more parts then simply replace the fitting with a Stalok.

But… you have that turnbuckle, right? I sure hope so, because: https://www.riggingandhardware.com/p...le-78efbj.aspx

Hayn is probably the most expensive brand.

On that same site you can find parts like just the body, forks etc. I had linked that site earlier as well, it’s an online resource for buying rigging parts.
Whoops!

Sorry about that. I went to the link with the cones. But I missed some of the post I guess. I was rushing a bit. I will go back and look.

No turnbuckle here. Not in that size. Used a proprietary system that was not like these. It just used a nut and a backing locking nuts. That’s it. Pretty good actually.

They can be seen up thread when I posted pictures of these fittings to begin with. You can see the nut and locknut
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Old 26-07-2023, 13:22   #113
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Whoops!

Sorry about that. I went to the link with the cones. But I missed some of the post I guess. I was rushing a bit. I will go back and look.

No turnbuckle here. Not in that size. Used a proprietary system that was not like these. It just used a nut and a backing locking nuts. Thatís it. Pretty good actually.

They can be seen up thread when I posted pictures of these fittings to begin with. You can see the nut and locknut
Found it. Well, now you know why they used the nut and locknut instead of a turnbuckleÖ. $900 reasons for that. Canít you do the same? I must admit that I lost track of what this is forÖ.
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Old 26-07-2023, 13:50   #114
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Found it. Well, now you know why they used the nut and locknut instead of a turnbuckleÖ. $900 reasons for that. Canít you do the same? I must admit that I lost track of what this is forÖ.

Ha ha ha

No worries. My threads move pretty quickly.

This is the Martingale stay. The seagull striker.


My crossbeam came off a Chris White a Atlantic 55. that has a wider beam than my boat. It was trimmed down a little bit to fit mine. Then the tangs you see in the picture were added and welded in.

This stainless wire goes from one side of the boat to the other. Over a little bridge in the middle.

Like the pictures.

However on the other boat, there were some holes in the Crossbeam and it bolted onto some special fittings that were attached to the underside.

Just not how it works on this boat. So I have to run something from the tang on the port bow to the tang on the starboard bow to prevent the forestay from pulling the crossbeam upward and folding it in half. Thatís the point of these stays.

Itís either continue like this, getting the parts that are needed, or do something synthetic. Or maybe itís cheaper to get all new everything and smaller wire. I donít need wire as big as this. This is just what came with the Crossbeam.
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Old 26-07-2023, 14:29   #115
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Ha ha ha

No worries. My threads move pretty quickly.

This is the Martingale stay. The seagull striker.


My crossbeam came off a Chris White a Atlantic 55. that has a wider beam than my boat. It was trimmed down a little bit to fit mine. Then the tangs you see in the picture were added and welded in.

This stainless wire goes from one side of the boat to the other. Over a little bridge in the middle.

Like the pictures.

However on the other boat, there were some holes in the Crossbeam and it bolted onto some special fittings that were attached to the underside.

Just not how it works on this boat. So I have to run something from the tang on the port bow to the tang on the starboard bow to prevent the forestay from pulling the crossbeam upward and folding it in half. Thatís the point of these stays.

Itís either continue like this, getting the parts that are needed, or do something synthetic. Or maybe itís cheaper to get all new everything and smaller wire. I donít need wire as big as this. This is just what came with the Crossbeam.
What size wire is in your plan? Also, why not Dyneema? I saw the YoungBarnacles channel (that you donít watch ) use straight carbon fiber for this whole part. I imagine this is one of those places you can use Dyneema and lashings.
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Old 26-07-2023, 14:34   #116
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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What size wire is in your plan? Also, why not Dyneema? I saw the YoungBarnacles channel (that you don’t watch ) use straight carbon fiber for this whole part. I imagine this is one of those places you can use Dyneema and lashings.
I would LOVE to do dyneema and lashings here. Seems so much easier than trying to souce all of these metal parts.

Also saves about 50-80lbs of weight at the bow which is a great thing.

not exactly sure what size dyneema I would need. Guess if I look at some breaking strength information it would help. definitely need to tighten this thing way up. And it can’t have a lot of slack because I don’t want the Crossbeam to be bending when the forestay is tightened.

I have a look around the Internet to see if this is possible because I would definitely prefer this.

Also not quite sure how to tension this up really well.
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Old 26-07-2023, 14:51   #117
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

And unfortunately, I am seeing no evidence of anyone having ever used dyneema for the Martingale stay.

i’d really love to do this. It sounds so much more simple, in theory.
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Old 26-07-2023, 15:05   #118
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Welp, from the ultimate synthetic rigging pro himself, you still need a turnbuckle. So probably even harder to go synthetic, unfortunately.

Next time.

I'll have to source the stainless
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Old 26-07-2023, 17:04   #119
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Welp, from the ultimate synthetic rigging pro himself, you still need a turnbuckle. So probably even harder to go synthetic, unfortunately.

Next time.

I'll have to source the stainless
Like I said, it was done in carbon fiber.

I would start with the size wire from your plan. You didnít post that. I suspect itís much less than 14mm Dyform (which is something like 16mm regular 1x19) and parts will be much cheaper.

Also, you can always replace a turnbuckle with something else. It may be much more work to adjust, but itís always possible. Also, you can replace a stainless steel wire with Dyneema no matter if itís a capshroud or a Martingale.

Thereís good videos on how to tighten Dyneema lashings too.

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Old 26-07-2023, 17:32   #120
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Like I said, it was done in carbon fiber.

I would start with the size wire from your plan. You didnít post that. I suspect itís much less than 14mm Dyform (which is something like 16mm regular 1x19) and parts will be much cheaper.

Also, you can always replace a turnbuckle with something else. It may be much more work to adjust, but itís always possible. Also, you can replace a stainless steel wire with Dyneema no matter if itís a capshroud or a Martingale.

Thereís good videos on how to tighten Dyneema lashings too.


yeah. Itís just something in tension, so it makes sense to use carbon and epoxy.

I wonder if there is some other way to tension up a synthetic line (or any rope) that might work here. Maybe a rope only turnbuckle? Could be made of any material such as galvanized. However, I probably donít want to have to be replacing it within the next five years. So maybe stainless is the only option. Or bronze. Or if they had something else entirely.

maybe thatís the thing to look into tonight and in the morning.

there will be stretch. if it stretches too much, itís not going to provide the dimensional stability needed and the Crossbeam will break in half and the rig will go down in an aft direction. I'd lose the forestay.

so this has to be right.

The concept in theory is there, but how do I tighten this thing? I have to keep it taught.
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