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Old 24-07-2023, 14:45   #76
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

That 7/8Ē stud fitting you have there is $240 new at the same place thoughÖ.
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Old 24-07-2023, 15:04   #77
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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That 7/8” stud fitting you have there is $240 new at the same place though….
Right. I know I’m not getting out of that for free. Ha ha

So I can get the turnbuckle on the end of that thing and a new cone and I’ll be able to do the seagull striker.
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Old 24-07-2023, 15:11   #78
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Iím guessing your forestay is 3/8Ē like mine? That wire is less than $5 per foot at the DIY rigging stores

https://www.riggingandhardware.com/p...stainless.aspx
Actually, you are right. I took a closer look.

That high price included all of the swage fittings.

all the parts and swaging of the 1/2Ē forestay, upper fork connector, lower fork connector, turnbuckle, and mechanical lower swage fitting.
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Old 24-07-2023, 16:26   #79
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor View Post
I am going to be curious to see how this goes, I have been considering redoing my rig with Samson Amsteel and the Colligo fittings as well.



The big problem is I am currently running an isolated backstay, I have heard though of people running a wire up the inside of the backstay when using Dyneema.



Really don't want to lose the ability to run my Ham radio!

Yes, thatís what is done. Simple. And no insulators needed.
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Old 24-07-2023, 16:31   #80
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Actually, never mind. Itís a different type of turnbuckle. Thatís what the thinner one is. A closed turnbuckle.

I guess itís not that important.

Just have to find a 7/8Ē turnbuckle and put it on the non-wheel side of the boat I guess. Is that how itís done?


I just donít remember seeing other peopleís boats looking asymmetrical like that

Itís hardly visible so you never noticed. Here are the two ends of our martingale stay:
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Old 24-07-2023, 16:44   #81
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I'm considering those uppers as intermediates because they appear to start just below the upper spreaders, rather than at the level where the top of the diamonds attach (above the spreaders) where a cap shroud would typically go.

STOP! You are thinking of a monohull rig - as Chotu has pointed out this is a traditional catamaran rig. It is immaterial where the diamond stays attach to the mast as they have no interaction with the shrouds.

On a fractional rig, like what Chotu has (and most other catamarans), the cap shroud attaches just below the hounds. The lower shroud attaches somewhat lower. Both are led well back of the mast - on our slightly larger cat the cap shroud chainplate is 2.5m aft of the mast.
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Old 24-07-2023, 16:55   #82
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Itís hardly visible so you never noticed. Here are the two ends of our martingale stay:
Attachment 278643
Attachment 278644
No way!!! Ha ha ha.

I find it so disturbing.

The asymmetry.

Well, Iím glad this is how itís done because thatís the easy way.

Thanks for confirming it
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Old 24-07-2023, 17:04   #83
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Pretty good point.

I forgot about the reefed situation.

The Mast has a place for a baby stay. I could put one in. But then I couldnít have my self tacking jib that I already bought all of the hardware for.

Unless it was a removable baby stay only used when reefing. Which defeats the point of running all control lines inside.

Although there is no reason it couldnít be synthetic line turned around a block, run inside and winched into action when needed I guess.

Note that mast pumping happens regardless of whether you have reefs in or not.

A removable baby stay is the simpler solution to protect the mast. You have nothing else to do when tacking (LOL) so adding the task of switching the baby stay from one side of the jib to the other shouldnít be a big deal.

A better solution to protect the mast is prebend. Can you induce some prebend (more tension cap shrouds less tension lower shrouds)? Whether that would protect the mast enough, I have no idea. Despite your past experience, it may be an issue for a rigger to advise.

Regarding running backstays, our boat manual requires that theyíre used with gennaker and spinnaker at any wind speed. I suppose that is to provide more support than just the cap shrouds. Otherwise we are to use our running backstays upwind and two-sail reaching only in moderate and strong winds.
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Old 24-07-2023, 17:21   #84
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Note that mast pumping happens regardless of whether you have reefs in or not.

A removable baby stay is the simpler solution to protect the mast. You have nothing else to do when tacking (LOL) so adding the task of switching the baby stay from one side of the jib to the other shouldn’t be a big deal.

A better solution to protect the mast is prebend. Can you induce some prebend (more tension cap shrouds less tension lower shrouds)? Whether that would protect the mast enough, I have no idea. Despite your past experience, it may be an issue for a rigger to advise.

Regarding running backstays, our boat manual requires that they’re used with gennaker and spinnaker at any wind speed. I suppose that is to provide more support than just the cap shrouds. Otherwise we are to use our running backstays upwind and two-sail reaching only in moderate and strong winds.
Pre-bend sounds good.

For some reason the last guy didn’t think it was possible because the spreaders aren’t swept back. I think he was wrong.

Saying it like you are in this post, it seems completely possible. It doesn’t matter if the double diamond configuration is bent. As long as it’s bent at 90į to the spreaders.

Certainly worth a shot. Once I get the rig up I will try that first of all.

A slight prebend would be easy.

There’s no reason not to try that. I don’t even see why Rigger is needed. They don’t actually know any of this stuff. Lol. They just replace stainless steel wires. Ha ha. Honestly, by the time they start looking at my boat, that’s what they all say. “ I specialize in replacing the old standing rigging with new standing rigging. Of the exact same type.“ “this boat isn’t in my wheelhouse “, etc . This is 99% of their work.

There are very few of them that actually know any of this. They just copy and reproduce what’s already there or occasionally things they have seen before. This is more of a naval architect thing I think.

But in actuality, there’s no reason I can’t do this. You can tune your rig any way you want really. I have always tuned the rig myself. Granted it was only monohulls, but still. 50 feet.

I can try some prebend and see. The smartest riggers all know this isn’t a one shot deal. You don’t just rig everything and go out lifting a hull in 30 knots the next day. It’s all an iteration and a lot of trying things gently to get things dialed in. I’ve learned that much from them
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Old 24-07-2023, 17:27   #85
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I have the paper version of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-S.../dp/B07F3RXWSR

Which includes rig tuning incl. for fractional rigs. Iím not sure if it explains catamaran rigs like yours as I donít have it at hand, but itís a must have regardless and I think many here in CF have and and maybe someone can check"
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Old 24-07-2023, 17:33   #86
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

If I remember correctly, there is a slight pre-bend in the plans as well. So I will just use that if the mast seems to be happy taking it along with the 1.1 meter rake
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Old 24-07-2023, 17:36   #87
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I have the paper version of this book: https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-S.../dp/B07F3RXWSR

Which includes rig tuning incl. for fractional rigs. I’m not sure if it explains catamaran rigs like yours as I don’t have it at hand, but it’s a must have regardless and I think many here in CF have and and maybe someone can check"


How dare you disturb my KindleUnlimited science fiction reading??? Ha ha ha.

Seriously, this is a very good link. Thank you. I will grab this right away probably. Getting a free sample to take a look

Edit: I can see the table of contents and it does talk about fractional rig number one and fractional rig number two. what that means I have no idea. However, it probably covers everything I would need to tune the rig, but does not seem to be multihull specific
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Old 25-07-2023, 07:21   #88
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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How dare you disturb my KindleUnlimited science fiction reading??? Ha ha ha.

Seriously, this is a very good link. Thank you. I will grab this right away probably. Getting a free sample to take a look

Edit: I can see the table of contents and it does talk about fractional rig number one and fractional rig number two. what that means I have no idea. However, it probably covers everything I would need to tune the rig, but does not seem to be multihull specific
We got new rigging in 2005 in Trinidad and used Jonas, I believed his shop was called Trinidad Rigging. I explained him I wanted to learn everything about our rig, do everything at least once myself (like swaging etc.) and basically be his apprentice for this job. He agreed and the first thing he did was made me buy this book

Also, are you aware that you can get Brion Tossís Riggerís Apprentice on Kindle as well? I have the old edition but the new one is here: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Rigg.../dp/B01KPGY1AI
A must-have
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Old 25-07-2023, 09:49   #89
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Pre-bend sounds good.

For some reason the last guy didnít think it was possible because the spreaders arenít swept back. I think he was wrong.

Saying it like you are in this post, it seems completely possible. It doesnít matter if the double diamond configuration is bent. As long as itís bent at 90į to the spreaders.

Certainly worth a shot. Once I get the rig up I will try that first of all.

A slight prebend would be easy.

Thereís no reason not to try that. I donít even see why Rigger is needed. They donít actually know any of this stuff. Lol. They just replace stainless steel wires. Ha ha. Honestly, by the time they start looking at my boat, thatís what they all say. ď I specialize in replacing the old standing rigging with new standing rigging. Of the exact same type.ď ďthis boat isnít in my wheelhouse ď, etc . This is 99% of their work.

There are very few of them that actually know any of this. They just copy and reproduce whatís already there or occasionally things they have seen before. This is more of a naval architect thing I think.

But in actuality, thereís no reason I canít do this. You can tune your rig any way you want really. I have always tuned the rig myself. Granted it was only monohulls, but still. 50 feet.

I can try some prebend and see. The smartest riggers all know this isnít a one shot deal. You donít just rig everything and go out lifting a hull in 30 knots the next day. Itís all an iteration and a lot of trying things gently to get things dialed in. Iíve learned that much from them


It's like an insult to those of us who have dedicated ourselves to this or currently dedicate ourselves to it.

I already told you in another thread, you won't get any prebend without sweep back spreaders, you can tighten the uppers as much as you want, if you don't have a babystay your mast will be straight as an arrow, play with the 2 lowers and uppers, it won't make any difference.


I think you have fallen on people who don't know the business or at least that is how you describe it, a Rigger changes parts, adjusts the rig, designs rigs for boats that are not on the market and does many more things apart from duplicating a wire.


If you are going to try to have prebend by tightening the cap shrouds to death, and leaving the lowers loose, my 2 cents you are going to unbalance the mast in the mast step, stressing the mast in its mast step, you have a setup very similar to an old Privilege with straight spreaders, I don't understand the obsession with getting prebend when what you have is something else, if you want some curvature, mount a babystay and slack the lowers, prebend in a multi is done with the spreaders.
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Old 25-07-2023, 11:03   #90
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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It's like an insult to those of us who have dedicated ourselves to this or currently dedicate ourselves to it.

I already told you in another thread, you won't get any prebend without sweep back spreaders, you can tighten the uppers as much as you want, if you don't have a babystay your mast will be straight as an arrow, play with the 2 lowers and uppers, it won't make any difference.


I think you have fallen on people who don't know the business or at least that is how you describe it, a Rigger changes parts, adjusts the rig, designs rigs for boats that are not on the market and does many more things apart from duplicating a wire.


If you are going to try to have prebend by tightening the cap shrouds to death, and leaving the lowers loose, my 2 cents you are going to unbalance the mast in the mast step, stressing the mast in its mast step, you have a setup very similar to an old Privilege with straight spreaders, I don't understand the obsession with getting prebend when what you have is something else, if you want some curvature, mount a babystay and slack the lowers, prebend in a multi is done with the spreaders.

Well, yes. It’s true. I have fallen upon lousy people. Lots of them. I believe my country is plagued with them at the moment. it’s not only in rigging. It’s all over the place in many industries.

I don’t really need a curvature I’m just trying to prevent inversion. That’s it.

I don’t care about the pre-bend. I only care about accidental inversion.

But what I have learned is to just try things out cautiously and see how therig reacts and then decide what to do. So I think that’s what I’ll do. Sound right?

but for one moment just to discuss the theory, pretend I didn’t have any spreaders at all. Pretend I have none. I have a mast section.

Why couldn’t this mast bend?

i’m sure you would have to push the mid-height section forward and tighten down from the top to get it to do so, yes?

If yes, now add the spreaders and diamond. What is the difference in terms of bendability?
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