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Old 10-11-2023, 15:18   #841
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Maybe make a dam around the mast base and pour in some Chockfast Orange?
Cling film on the mast base to stop adhesion.
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Old 10-11-2023, 15:55   #842
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Maybe make a dam around the mast base and pour in some Chockfast Orange?
Cling film on the mast base to stop adhesion.
Quite the marketing they have going. Upun investigating this, it's just epoxy
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Old 11-11-2023, 00:39   #843
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Maybe make a dam around the mast base and pour in some Chockfast Orange?
Cling film on the mast base to stop adhesion.
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Old 11-11-2023, 09:33   #844
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Well, the lashings are being tested like crazy right now.

Getting tossed about by a lot of steep chop on the beam.

Shrouds occasionally going slack.

Lashings staying thankfully.

Interesting side effect of a composite wire/dyneema shroud:

The 1x19 imparts a twist when you pull on it. It’s twisting the dyneema about 1/8 of a turn when loading goes from zero to full.

Why am I not just using these lashings again? Why am I doing the loops? Redundancy? Bowline weakness?
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Old 11-11-2023, 10:20   #845
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Well, the lashings are being tested like crazy right now.

Getting tossed about by a lot of steep chop on the beam.

Shrouds occasionally going slack.

Lashings staying thankfully.

Interesting side effect of a composite wire/dyneema shroud:

The 1x19 imparts a twist when you pull on it. Itís twisting the dyneema about 1/8 of a turn when loading goes from zero to full.

Why am I not just using these lashings again? Why am I doing the loops? Redundancy? Bowline weakness?
I thought you had turnbuckles for tensioning?
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Old 11-11-2023, 10:22   #846
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I thought you had turnbuckles for tensioning?


I do.

The lashings look kind of cool however
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Old 11-11-2023, 11:16   #847
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I do.

The lashings look kind of cool however
I know, but that coolness quickly passes when you tighten the rig with the lashings instead of the turnbuckles

BTW, I have figured out how I will attach the carbon fiber beams to the stainless steel arch: also with lashings but kinda different

The main “lashings” will actually be Whoopie Slings. You simply got to have Whoopie Slings. I am making them out of 7/64 (2.5mm) Amsteel Blue with one end being a fixed eye splice and the other end an adjustable whoopie sling eye splice. But the adjustment only needs to be small, think inches instead of 4’ orso they normally do.

I will tie a length of Lash-It to the fixed eye, throw the sling over the beam and tie the Lash-It to the pushpit so that the eye of the sling just comes over the top of the beam. Now with the other end I create a standard square lashing of three turns, with the sliding loop just passing underneath, pointing up to the other loop, adjusting the sling to get that right. Now I take the lash-it from the pushpit and make a regular lashing between the two eyes, tightening the sling like crazy.

It’s like some mainsheets are, with a small block and tackle for fine adjustments and more power. The good thing is that there’s nothing tying down the individual loops of the sling so that they can balance the load perfectly.

We talked about that with the frapping knot etc. I looked for a way to tighten a lashing without frapping turns or a frapping knot. This is much less force than shrouds so I don’t think I’ll even need a winch to tighten it but it’s pretty neat.

I got this idea from Evans Starzinger, who is the expert on Dyneema techniques and used to be here on the forum too, until he left like all the experts left
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Old 11-11-2023, 12:03   #848
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Well, the lashings are being tested like crazy right now.

Getting tossed about by a lot of steep chop on the beam.

Shrouds occasionally going slack.

Lashings staying thankfully.

Interesting side effect of a composite wire/dyneema shroud:

The 1x19 imparts a twist when you pull on it. Itís twisting the dyneema about 1/8 of a turn when loading goes from zero to full.

Why am I not just using these lashings again? Why am I doing the loops? Redundancy? Bowline weakness?
Loops will be more elegant than a lashing ended in a bowline, and if you have covered loops, they'll be more long-lasting as well as better looking.
I'll bet by the time you change out the wires you'll go full synthetic with lanyards to tighten, and shave a couple hundred pounds of metal from the rig. Hardest part is accepting that synthetic shrouds with lanyards are better--the rest is easy. But seeing the lashings in action is the first step toward believing.
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Old 11-11-2023, 16:45   #849
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
Loops will be more elegant than a lashing ended in a bowline, and if you have covered loops, they'll be more long-lasting as well as better looking.
I'll bet by the time you change out the wires you'll go full synthetic with lanyards to tighten, and shave a couple hundred pounds of metal from the rig. Hardest part is accepting that synthetic shrouds with lanyards are better--the rest is easy. But seeing the lashings in action is the first step toward believing.

I was actually able to hide the bowline inside the lashings so it looks great.

But youíre definitely right. I donít want any more metal! I am sooooo stuck on synthetic now. Itís all I want to do.

Iíll have to see what the lanyard tightening is all about. Havenít seen that yet and google isnít showing me any examples.

I canít imagine keeping metal wire anymore.
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Old 11-11-2023, 16:52   #850
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I know, but that coolness quickly passes when you tighten the rig with the lashings instead of the turnbuckles

BTW, I have figured out how I will attach the carbon fiber beams to the stainless steel arch: also with lashings but kinda different

The main “lashings” will actually be Whoopie Slings. You simply got to have Whoopie Slings. I am making them out of 7/64 (2.5mm) Amsteel Blue with one end being a fixed eye splice and the other end an adjustable whoopie sling eye splice. But the adjustment only needs to be small, think inches instead of 4’ orso they normally do.

I will tie a length of Lash-It to the fixed eye, throw the sling over the beam and tie the Lash-It to the pushpit so that the eye of the sling just comes over the top of the beam. Now with the other end I create a standard square lashing of three turns, with the sliding loop just passing underneath, pointing up to the other loop, adjusting the sling to get that right. Now I take the lash-it from the pushpit and make a regular lashing between the two eyes, tightening the sling like crazy.

It’s like some mainsheets are, with a small block and tackle for fine adjustments and more power. The good thing is that there’s nothing tying down the individual loops of the sling so that they can balance the load perfectly.

We talked about that with the frapping knot etc. I looked for a way to tighten a lashing without frapping turns or a frapping knot. This is much less force than shrouds so I don’t think I’ll even need a winch to tighten it but it’s pretty neat.

I got this idea from Evans Starzinger, who is the expert on Dyneema techniques and used to be here on the forum too, until he left like all the experts left
OK, this one sounds like a good YouTube to me. I would devote some bandwidth to learning that. This is really interesting. I looked at some diagrams of whoopie slings. I saw the adjustability but I want to see it in motion. It’s pretty interesting. I’m starting to really like all of this marlinspike/uhmwpe stuff. It’s so interesting! It’s also nice to rely on yourself. Instead of having to go to a hardware store or buy things online. You can do so much once you start learning more and more interesting things to do with rope.

What I did for the shrouds is I just did the lashings, three times around, then pinch them off with the lashings. But the turnbuckle is still there above them. So after I cranked them a little bit tight with the lashings, I was able to tighten much more with the turnbuckle. So I have that cool looking lashing but above it is the turnbuckle .
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Old 11-11-2023, 16:57   #851
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
I was actually able to hide the bowline inside the lashings so it looks great.

But youíre definitely right. I donít want any more metal! I am sooooo stuck on synthetic now. Itís all I want to do.

Iíll have to see what the lanyard tightening is all about. Havenít seen that yet and google isnít showing me any examples.

I canít imagine keeping metal wire anymore.
You only need to read back your own threads where we posted a whole collection of videos that show how itís done
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Old 11-11-2023, 17:14   #852
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
OK, this one sounds like a good YouTube to me. I would devote some bandwidth to learning that. This is really interesting. I looked at some diagrams of whoopie slings. I saw the adjustability but I want to see it in motion. Itís pretty interesting. Iím starting to really like all of this marlinspike/uhmwpe stuff. Itís so interesting! Itís also nice to rely on yourself. Instead of having to go to a hardware store or buy things online. You can do so much once you start learning more and more interesting things to do with rope.

What I did for the shrouds is I just did the lashings, three times around, then pinch them off with the lashings. But the turnbuckle is still there above them. So after I cranked them a little bit tight with the lashings, I was able to tighten much more with the turnbuckle. So I have that cool looking lashing but above it is the turnbuckle .
You also have the UCR: Utility Constrictor Rope, which has a release.

The problem with a whoopie sling is that you can tighten it but canít loosen it. This is okay when you have another option to take the strain off, like the small lashing in my application. Evans Starzinger described the ideal lashing as having an eye splice at each end and a smaller lashing between the two eyes to tighten and hold it so that there are no frapping turns that prevent the load to balance. The problem is to get that lashing with eye splices exactly the right length and thatís where the adjustable whoopie sling comes up.

Also, the 2.5mm Amsteel Blue has a 1,600lbs breaking strength, which, for a square lashing that has four legs per loop and three loops gives almost 20,000lbs strength while it is easy to splice. Lash-It is 650 lbs breaking strength and holds knots so with three legs it matches the Amsteel. Seems they go together pretty good.

Due to uneven loading, they derate lashings by 50% before adding a 2:1 safety factor, so that only leaves 5,000lbs of a 20,000lbs lashing, but with this technique you end up eliminating much of the derating. Of course I only hold some solar panels good for a couple hundred pounds but I find joy into researching the best method for engineering this
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Old 11-11-2023, 17:17   #853
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
You only need to read back your own threads where we posted a whole collection of videos that show how itís done
OK. I just absorbed it. It wasnít in any of my threads but it was in a different thread. And it was one of your posts. It shows how to make it on animated knots, then there was a YouTube showing how to use it which is what I was really really curious about. Reading what you wrote about using it above was hard to follow because I had never seen one in action but now I get it
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Old 11-11-2023, 17:19   #854
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
You also have the UCR: Utility Constrictor Rope, which has a release.

The problem with a whoopie sling is that you can tighten it but canít loosen it. This is okay when you have another option to take the strain off, like the small lashing in my application. Evans Starzinger described the ideal lashing as having an eye splice at each end and a smaller lashing between the two eyes to tighten and hold it so that there are no frapping turns that prevent the load to balance. The problem is to get that lashing with eye splices exactly the right length and thatís where the adjustable whoopie sling comes up.

Also, the 2.5mm Amsteel Blue has a 1,600lbs breaking strength, which, for a square lashing that has four legs per loop and three loops gives almost 20,000lbs strength while it is easy to splice. Lash-It is 650 lbs breaking strength and holds knots so with three legs it matches the Amsteel. Seems they go together pretty good.

Due to uneven loading, they derate lashings by 50% before adding a 2:1 safety factor, so that only leaves 5,000lbs of a 20,000lbs lashing, but with this technique you end up eliminating much of the derating. Of course I only hold some solar panels good for a couple hundred pounds but I find joy into researching the best method for engineering this
Yes but think of the next hurricane. Ha ha ha. He will be all set. No more problems with these solar panels.

Definitely interesting stuff. I like it a lot.

Check your email by the way. Not sure if you got something.
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Old 11-11-2023, 17:21   #855
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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OK. I just absorbed it. It wasnít in any of my threads but it was in a different thread. And it was one of your posts. It shows how to make it on animated knots, then there was a YouTube showing how to use it which is what I was really really curious about. Reading what you wrote about using it above was hard to follow because I had never seen one in action but now I get it
A while ago there was a thread about using Dyneema for the lifeline gates. A Whoopie Sling to close the gate is great, but how to open it againÖ It might be doable with a toggle/dogbone but I didnít try it yet.

Check out the new rope clutches for halyardsÖ they are fancy UCRís
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