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Old 18-10-2023, 06:28   #766
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

No good. No one has the Ronstan toggle and the other brands don't fit around the swaged eye.

Even Ronstan USA can't get one for 3 weeks. Super helpful/nice people though.

So... Why fight it to try to preserve some old lowers?

I'll put it up as is with the non-load bearing lowers setup, then go straight to full dyneema rigging on the lowers before sailing.

Will need some kind of hardware bit to connect the dyneema to the tang on the mast
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Old 19-10-2023, 05:27   #767
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
No good. No one has the Ronstan toggle and the other brands don't fit around the swaged eye.

Even Ronstan USA can't get one for 3 weeks. Super helpful/nice people though.

So... Why fight it to try to preserve some old lowers?

I'll put it up as is with the non-load bearing lowers setup, then go straight to full dyneema rigging on the lowers before sailing.

Will need some kind of hardware bit to connect the dyneema to the tang on the mast
What sort of tang is on the mast for the lowers? Welded? Bolted? What orientation/diameter is the hole? Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I've been musing on retrofitting Dyneema to previous wire rigs lately, and this might be a chance to innovate.
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Old 19-10-2023, 05:34   #768
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
What sort of tang is on the mast for the lowers? Welded? Bolted? What orientation/diameter is the hole? Sorry if this has been asked and answered already. I've been musing on retrofitting Dyneema to previous wire rigs lately, and this might be a chance to innovate.
I’ll sign up to be the test boat!

It’s a welded tang for the lowers. Uppers are bolted.

Lowers have an 11/16 hole. Just shy of 11/16. Pin is 5/8”

I’m thinking retrofitting dyneema is a great plan and will definitely do it because the metal is so damn heavy. It turned my stomach to add it to the rig. Lol

Here’s a pic. Tangs for lowers are circled.

Hole is fore/aft but angled slightly to account for swept back catamaran stuff.

All that really needs to be done is to make a smooth round surface for the dyneema to go over. And integrate that to the Tang. Even better would be if the tang already had a smooth round surface
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Old 19-10-2023, 06:48   #769
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
No good. No one has the Ronstan toggle and the other brands don't fit around the swaged eye.

Even Ronstan USA can't get one for 3 weeks. Super helpful/nice people though.

So... Why fight it to try to preserve some old lowers?

I'll put it up as is with the non-load bearing lowers setup, then go straight to full dyneema rigging on the lowers before sailing.

Will need some kind of hardware bit to connect the dyneema to the tang on the mast
These eyes connected to a double jaw toggle would work very well for your dyneema setup...
https://theyachtrigger.com/wp-conten...log_lowres.pdf
Page 5 and on
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Old 19-10-2023, 06:58   #770
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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These eyes connected to a double jaw toggle would work very well for your dyneema setup...
https://theyachtrigger.com/wp-conten...log_lowres.pdf
Page 5 and on
Do I see correctly that they do a Brummel splice around a dogbone which is captured in the housing? Brilliant!

Also, on the bottom, do I see black anodized aluminum versions incl. double jaw?
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Old 19-10-2023, 07:08   #771
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Do I see correctly that they do a Brummel splice around a dogbone which is captured in the housing? Brilliant!

Also, on the bottom, do I see black anodized aluminum versions incl. double jaw?
Correct on the dogbone/splice capture. Yeah they are incredibly simple, and yes, anodized aluminum options are available. Developed alongside Gleistein from Germany by the guys at Blue Wave.
Nice wide array of fittings, and we are currently adding shroud terminals (lollipop) style fittings to the range.
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Old 20-10-2023, 06:27   #772
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I think I just attached a picture of how I attach my shrouds to the mast tangs: a rounded-over hole, with a toggled soft shackle that grabs the upper thimble of the spliced shroud. If I can find the picture of the shroud attached, I'll post it. I have it somewhere....
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Old 20-10-2023, 18:45   #773
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by The Yacht Rigger View Post
Correct on the dogbone/splice capture. Yeah they are incredibly simple, and yes, anodized aluminum options are available. Developed alongside Gleistein from Germany by the guys at Blue Wave.

Nice wide array of fittings, and we are currently adding shroud terminals (lollipop) style fittings to the range.
Very interesting concept! Pricing seems a little elusive. As a general ballpark, how does the price compare to the similar stainless steel cone type fittings?
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Old 21-10-2023, 02:46   #774
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Found it! This is a pic of the upper end of my forestay: Dyneema-covered DM20, dyed gray, with a stainless wire-rope thimble (I'm patenting a different sort of thimble for this purpose, but this gets me on the water now), with a toggled soft shackle, leathered for extra durability. The thing with this is that the hole must be very carefully rounded and have no burrs.
The LFR on the aft side is a topping lift lead, held on by a covered dyneema loop, also dyed gray.
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Old 21-10-2023, 10:32   #775
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Very interesting concept! Pricing seems a little elusive. As a general ballpark, how does the price compare to the similar stainless steel cone type fittings?
We are actually currently doing a pricing re-structure on these. Will have new prices out next week that are a LOT more attractive.
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Old 21-10-2023, 15:47   #776
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
Found it! This is a pic of the upper end of my forestay: Dyneema-covered DM20, dyed gray, with a stainless wire-rope thimble (I'm patenting a different sort of thimble for this purpose, but this gets me on the water now), with a toggled soft shackle, leathered for extra durability. The thing with this is that the hole must be very carefully rounded and have no burrs.

The LFR on the aft side is a topping lift lead, held on by a covered dyneema loop, also dyed gray.

Is your forestay a single braid line with an outer cover pulled over top? If so, how was the cover applied at the eye splice?

BTW, that kind of loop and thimble may be sufficient for your boat, but not anywhere close even scaled up for the loads his 50í cat generates. Topping lift meh, but his cap shrouds and forestay will see ~10 metric ton loads.
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Old 21-10-2023, 15:55   #777
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I do like the spirit behind Benz’s solution.

I really would like something simple like that. I think the right thing would be to have the tangs accept the dyneema directly. I think those are called cheeky tangs on Colligo.

I like simplicity if possible
Having a nice round surface on the tangs eliminates any hardware. That’s the way to go.

I also don’t think there’s any reason that one would have to use the old stainless rigging tangs that are on their mast. You could cut those tangs flush and bolt something like cheeky tangs on.

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Old 21-10-2023, 15:56   #778
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Is your forestay a single braid line with an outer cover pulled over top? If so, how was the cover applied at the eye splice?

BTW, that kind of loop and thimble may be sufficient for your boat, but not anywhere close even scaled up for the loads his 50í cat generates. Topping lift meh, but his cap shrouds and forestay will see ~10 metric ton loads.
The forestay is a single braid--12-strand--with Dyneema cover slid over. I got the cover around the eye by doing a covered eye splice just like I have instructions for on my website.

This system, and these loops, can be scaled up to any break load desired. Be it a 50 foor or a 100 foot catamaran.
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Old 21-10-2023, 18:50   #779
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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The forestay is a single braid--12-strand--with Dyneema cover slid over. I got the cover around the eye by doing a covered eye splice just like I have instructions for on my website.



This system, and these loops, can be scaled up to any break load desired. Be it a 50 foor or a 100 foot catamaran.

Thanks for the description. Good solution for a nice cover. Iím assuming youíre using hanks with that forestay?

I donít think an open thimble can be scaled up for a cat like Chotuís - maybe a closed thimble but that also starts to be pretty big with lots of windage. And a double eye strop with a dogbone? A 50í foot cat needs 30 metric ton breaking strength - what size of strop would provide that? And how much forestay length do you lose?

Again, your solution is nice and simple for a smaller yacht. But scaling up those components I donít believe is feasible.
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Old 22-10-2023, 04:35   #780
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Thanks for the description. Good solution for a nice cover. Iím assuming youíre using hanks with that forestay?

I donít think an open thimble can be scaled up for a cat like Chotuís - maybe a closed thimble but that also starts to be pretty big with lots of windage. And a double eye strop with a dogbone? A 50í foot cat needs 30 metric ton breaking strength - what size of strop would provide that? And how much forestay length do you lose?

Again, your solution is nice and simple for a smaller yacht. But scaling up those components I donít believe is feasible.
I don't use regular hanks with Dyneema rigging--too much chafe potential. Instead, I slide LFRs onto the stay before splicing it, and use soft hanks around those to engage the jib. There is zero wear with that system.

With the same materials as the one in the picture (Marlow Lashline and cover), I can engineer a strop, using their published numbers, of any desired strength rating. Biggest I've seen so far was a dogbone strop proofed to 115 tons without breaking. It just takes bigger diameters of core and cover and toggle. By the time you get that big, losing even a foot of forestay length hardly matters, and with the budget necessary for kit that big, a closed thimble with a radiused hole for the strop could be machined, or a big round LFR used. I've put huge Tylaska LFRs into dyneema as big as 1 1/4" diameter, and never harmed one yet.
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