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Old 24-07-2023, 09:03   #61
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

These are the terminators that are currently on the seagull striker wire. (First pic)

It’s a single wire that goes over an upside down U shape arch. So only 2 attachment points and a means of tensioning needed.

The wire was too long because it was made for a Chris White Atlantic 55.

I my termination points are also much closer than on the CW Atlantic 55, so I should have enough stainless wire here to change these ends to DIY hardware fittings

Just not sure what everyone likes to use in this case.


The new fittings need to attach to that tang where that bowline is attached on the pic of the beam. Next to all of that lovely bird ****. Rrrrrr !!!

I’m thinking Stalock and turnbuckles? It only needs one turnbuckle but that might look kind of stupid. Is there a better way?

More synthetic?

For some reason I’m thinking metal.



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Old 24-07-2023, 11:09   #62
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Also, pics. This is what I am trying to achieve. What are those hardware attachments called in the plan? I see them on a lot of Catamarans.

It doesn’t look like anybody is using huge turnbuckles on their cross beam. What are people using to tighten them?
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Old 24-07-2023, 11:21   #63
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

That wire already has a Norseman or Stalok fitting installedÖ you can simply re-use it and just buy a new cone for it.

For making the loops: your rope has no constructional stretch because it was pre stretched and heat set. But when you splice it, you reintroduce constructional stretch, so you must stretch that loop between a strong point and a line to a winch, then fit to see if the length is correct etc. After the first loop you will know how much stretch there is and get the others right much easier.

You can not mark itin place before splicing because the splice shortens the rope. You simply must make a guess erring on the long side, measure exactly, make it, stretch it and see where you end up so you can calculate how much shorter it needs to be, modify it and hope it comes out exactly right. Now you should be able to repeat this precisely.

With three loops the load will distribute by itself. What size wire are these shrouds? You normally size for creep instead of working load. Look up the SWL for the wire, divide by 6 (three loops is 6 legs) then see which small wire size fits that number, then look that wire size up on the Colligo website table for replacing with Dynex Dux. That table uses creep per year as the sizing factor.
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Old 24-07-2023, 11:24   #64
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Also, pics. This is what I am trying to achieve. What are those hardware attachments called in the plan? I see them on a lot of Catamarans.

It doesnít look like anybody is using huge turnbuckles on their cross beam. What are people using to tighten them?
You mean a female clevis connector? Where you put the clevis pin through?
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Old 24-07-2023, 11:30   #65
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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You mean a female clevis connector? Where you put the clevis pin through?
This thing. It’s kind of like a turnbuckle. But it’s not. It’s not huge. Doesn’t take up your whole viewing area when you are looking forward.

Edit: Found it. It’s just a different type of turnbuckle. A closed turnbuckle
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Old 24-07-2023, 11:39   #66
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
That wire already has a Norseman or Stalok fitting installed… you can simply re-use it and just buy a new cone for it.

For making the loops: your rope has no constructional stretch because it was pre stretched and heat set. But when you splice it, you reintroduce constructional stretch, so you must stretch that loop between a strong point and a line to a winch, then fit to see if the length is correct etc. After the first loop you will know how much stretch there is and get the others right much easier.

You can not mark itin place before splicing because the splice shortens the rope. You simply must make a guess erring on the long side, measure exactly, make it, stretch it and see where you end up so you can calculate how much shorter it needs to be, modify it and hope it comes out exactly right. Now you should be able to repeat this precisely.

With three loops the load will distribute by itself. What size wire are these shrouds? You normally size for creep instead of working load. Look up the SWL for the wire, divide by 6 (three loops is 6 legs) then see which small wire size fits that number, then look that wire size up on the Colligo website table for replacing with Dynex Dux. That table uses creep per year as the sizing factor.
Ahhhhh.

Constructional stretch. Got it. So when I make my loop I will introduce an opportunity for the thing to stretch out some more.

Does not sound like an exact science. More like an art.

Regarding that fitting, I can just take that apart, cut the stainless wire shorter and reuse? Then get something to screw on the end of it to attach to the tang?

I am picturing the standard turnbuckles. And they are huge. But maybe just to get things going without spending a bunch of money this is the way to do it.


These things are beasts by the way. Not sure how much 22mm turnbuckles are going to be. Plus I only need one?

Kind of wish I knew how this was typically done.

I don’t remember seeing a big giant turnbuckle on the front of Catamarans. Been trying to look at pictures online of how this is done but I haven’t seemed to have found one.
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Old 24-07-2023, 11:50   #67
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Actually, never mind. It’s a different type of turnbuckle. That’s what the thinner one is. A closed turnbuckle.

I guess it’s not that important.

Just have to find a 7/8” turnbuckle and put it on the non-wheel side of the boat I guess. Is that how it’s done?


I just don’t remember seeing other people’s boats looking asymmetrical like that
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Old 24-07-2023, 12:26   #68
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Ahhhhh.

Constructional stretch. Got it. So when I make my loop I will introduce an opportunity for the thing to stretch out some more.

Does not sound like an exact science. More like an art.

Regarding that fitting, I can just take that apart, cut the stainless wire shorter and reuse? Then get something to screw on the end of it to attach to the tang?

I am picturing the standard turnbuckles. And they are huge. But maybe just to get things going without spending a bunch of money this is the way to do it.


These things are beasts by the way. Not sure how much 22mm turnbuckles are going to be. Plus I only need one?

Kind of wish I knew how this was typically done.

I donít remember seeing a big giant turnbuckle on the front of Catamarans. Been trying to look at pictures online of how this is done but I havenít seemed to have found one.
That threaded rodwith mechanical fitting is called a Stalok stud. It is part of the turnbuckle. See https://www.stalok.com/product/sta-lok-stud/

Now hear this: it can also be a Norseman or Hayn fitting. They have a cone inside that you need to replace. These fittings support a couple diameters wire, i.e. 12mm also supports 1/2Ē etc. But the cone must exactly match the wire size and is different for each brand. Here you can see the internals:

https://www.stalok.com/product-categ...minals/page/2/
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Old 24-07-2023, 12:29   #69
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Ahhhhh.

Constructional stretch. Got it. So when I make my loop I will introduce an opportunity for the thing to stretch out some more.

Does not sound like an exact science. More like an art.

Regarding that fitting, I can just take that apart, cut the stainless wire shorter and reuse? Then get something to screw on the end of it to attach to the tang?

I am picturing the standard turnbuckles. And they are huge. But maybe just to get things going without spending a bunch of money this is the way to do it.


These things are beasts by the way. Not sure how much 22mm turnbuckles are going to be. Plus I only need one?

Kind of wish I knew how this was typically done.

I donít remember seeing a big giant turnbuckle on the front of Catamarans. Been trying to look at pictures online of how this is done but I havenít seemed to have found one.
That picture with calipers: I think it is 7/8Ē thread size.
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Old 24-07-2023, 12:52   #70
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
That threaded rodwith mechanical fitting is called a Stalok stud. It is part of the turnbuckle. See https://www.stalok.com/product/sta-lok-stud/

Now hear this: it can also be a Norseman or Hayn fitting. They have a cone inside that you need to replace. These fittings support a couple diameters wire, i.e. 12mm also supports 1/2” etc. But the cone must exactly match the wire size and is different for each brand. Here you can see the internals:

https://www.stalok.com/product-categ...minals/page/2/
This is awesome! Thank you so much. Perfect crash course.

I’m following all of this now.

I’ll take it apart and check out the cone inside and that will hopefully tell me which brand other than if there are markings on it
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Old 24-07-2023, 12:53   #71
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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That picture with calipers: I think it is 7/8” thread size.
Yes. 7/8” turnbuckle. A beast.

This is actually quite a relief that it was one of these types of fittings to begin with.

My biggest concern was that the flattened stainless steel wire, which is different, would not fit one of these and I would have to get it done by a Rigger.

Thankfully this is not the case.
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Old 24-07-2023, 14:20   #72
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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This is awesome! Thank you so much. Perfect crash course.

Iím following all of this now.

Iíll take it apart and check out the cone inside and that will hopefully tell me which brand other than if there are markings on it
If it is a Norseman: they are out of business, but Tylaska now makes new cones for them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Yes. 7/8Ē turnbuckle. A beast.

This is actually quite a relief that it was one of these types of fittings to begin with.

My biggest concern was that the flattened stainless steel wire, which is different, would not fit one of these and I would have to get it done by a Rigger.

Thankfully this is not the case.
WTF flattened wire?! Ah, you have Dyform wire. I have some 12mm Dyform wire as well for my capshrouds and lowers. You need special Dyform cones for that but yes they go into the same fittings.

SoÖ. would you happen to have these same fittings on all the stays and shrouds? In that case you can simply buy new, longer wire and new cones and get it done permanently straight away. I donít think the wire is too expensive?
This leaves the question on which fittings you have at the topÖ I have Norseman below but swaged above, so I need to decide to buy mechanical fittings or a hydraulic ram and die sets for swage fittingsÖ
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Old 24-07-2023, 14:34   #73
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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If it is a Norseman: they are out of business, but Tylaska now makes new cones for them



WTF flattened wire?! Ah, you have Dyform wire. I have some 12mm Dyform wire as well for my capshrouds and lowers. You need special Dyform cones for that but yes they go into the same fittings.

So…. would you happen to have these same fittings on all the stays and shrouds? In that case you can simply buy new, longer wire and new cones and get it done permanently straight away. I don’t think the wire is too expensive?
This leaves the question on which fittings you have at the top… I have Norseman below but swaged above, so I need to decide to buy mechanical fittings or a hydraulic ram and die sets for swage fittings…

No. The rigging did not come off of an Atlantic 55. I wish. Lol

Only the cross beam came off of that boat. So that’s the only one that has these DIY fittings.

The rest of the boat has pretty standard, inaccessible (swage?) fittings done by Mack Sails in Florida. And yes. I will be replacing those on the shrouds at some point. But not now. I’m going to get some life out of these before I replace. I have a brand new forestay because I had to get one. It made more sense lengthening that by getting a new one. It was not even close to cheap. Lol. Like $2000 just for the wire for the forestay. So that’s something like $8000 for just the wire for the shrouds.

and yes! That’s the stuff! Dyform wire. Only on the Crossbeam. Standard profile wire on the rig

when I replace everything, I need it to be DIY. So I’m going to stayloc or Norseman or whatever all the way. I do not want to have to rely on any marine service providers other than cranes.

Might even go synthetic next time.

I need to get this boat in order first though. And have a little fun using it.
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Old 24-07-2023, 14:43   #74
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I am going to be curious to see how this goes, I have been considering redoing my rig with Samson Amsteel and the Colligo fittings as well.



The big problem is I am currently running an isolated backstay, I have heard though of people running a wire up the inside of the backstay when using Dyneema.



Really don't want to lose the ability to run my Ham radio!
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Old 24-07-2023, 14:43   #75
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Iím guessing your forestay is 3/8Ē like mine? That wire is less than $5 per foot at the DIY rigging stores

https://www.riggingandhardware.com/p...stainless.aspx
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