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Old 01-09-2023, 11:30   #391
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
True.

That settles it right there actually. There is no space for a solent because I have a self tacking (100%) jib.

Better get into the classified section and sell the Facnor. It works just fine. There was never anything wrong with it. That Rigger just made me buy the new one (Harken dealer).

Phase 2 of the running rigging will add a code zero on a bow sprit.
You'd put the self tacker on the inside furler with a Solent. So it would give you the self tacker and a bigger jib. You wouldn't need that and also a code zero though, so if you want to add the code zero, then you might as well sell the extra furler.
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Old 01-09-2023, 11:43   #392
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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You'd put the self tacker on the inside furler with a Solent. So it would give you the self tacker and a bigger jib. You wouldn't need that and also a code zero though, so if you want to add the code zero, then you might as well sell the extra furler.
All of this monohull visualization is bending my brain. Lol

The inside Furler is the self Tacker. That’s already what it is. A solent would go inside that. Another added baby stay, which you can’t do because the jib is a 100% self tacker.

To put on a code 0 on a catamaran it goes on the bowsprit. Which I don’t have yet.

Here is a really good picture I just found online. This should clear it up.



100% Self tacking jib in play in the top pic and a screecher/code zero or whatever the hell that is in the bottom pic from the outer furler on the bowsprit. Lol
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Old 01-09-2023, 11:50   #393
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
All of this monohull visualization is bending my brain. Lol

The inside Furler is the self Tacker. Thatís already what it is. A solent would go inside that. Another added baby stay, which you canít do because the jib is a 100% self tacker.

To put on a code 0 on a catamaran it goes on the bowsprit. Which I donít have yet.

Here is a really good picture I just found online. This should clear it up.



100% Self tacking jib in play in the top pic and a screecher/code zero or whatever the hell that is in the bottom pic from the outer furler on the bowsprit. Lol
Agreed, and if you do a code zero or screecher, you'll likely want a top down style furler with an endless furling line. This also gives you the flexibility to use the top down furler drum and swivel on an Asym should you want a furling downwind sail (as long as you buy a furler with the convertible capabilities, like the Bamar Evo Series).
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Old 01-09-2023, 11:56   #394
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
All of this monohull visualization is bending my brain. Lol

The inside Furler is the self Tacker. Thatís already what it is. A solent would go inside that. Another added baby stay, which you canít do because the jib is a 100% self tacker.

To put on a code 0 on a catamaran it goes on the bowsprit. Which I donít have yet.

Here is a really good picture I just found online. This should clear it up.



100% Self tacking jib in play in the top pic and a screecher/code zero or whatever the hell that is in the bottom pic from the outer furler on the bowsprit. Lol
You're thinking cutter rig, not Solent. A solent would be 2 furlers with one right behind the other. So you could put the second just outside of your self tacker. But if you're planning a code zero on a bowsprit, that would get rid of any use case for the Solent anyway (regardless of cat or mono).
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Old 01-09-2023, 12:17   #395
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
You're thinking cutter rig, not Solent. A solent would be 2 furlers with one right behind the other. So you could put the second just outside of your self tacker. But if you're planning a code zero on a bowsprit, that would get rid of any use case for the Solent anyway (regardless of cat or mono).
No no no. Lol

That’s not it. You have it wrong. You keep coming at this from a monohull perspective. You have to change the way you are thinking. It doesn’t work like a monohull. This happened earlier in the thread also. I know you’re a powerboat guy, so you definitely get a pass, but you have this all wrong. Lol

You cannot put anything outside your self Tacker. There’s nothing but air and water past the self tacker - or a bowsprit. Take a closer look at the pic I posted. The top picture shows the self tacker in action. There is nothing beyond it. Although in this particular picture there is a bowsprit beyond it because it is there to hold the code 0 or screecher you see in the bottom pic

Actually let me go take a quick picture for you. Outside. There is only one attachment point for a forestay. And that is the place the self tacker goes. There is nothing beyond it but air.

Edit: The item in the red circle is where the forestay attaches. That is where the Furler for the self Tacker attaches. There is no just outside to self Tacker. There is only air. Or you can put a bowsprit on there and put a Furler for a code 0 or screecher. The forestay on a catamaran attaches to the forward beam. That’s true of every single Catamaran. That’s how the load is transferred to the hulls.
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Old 01-09-2023, 12:30   #396
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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No no no. Lol

That’s not it. You have it wrong. You keep coming at this from a monohull perspective. You have to change the way you are thinking. It doesn’t work like a monohull. This happened earlier in the thread also. I know you’re a powerboat guy, so you definitely get a pass, but you have this all wrong. Lol

You cannot put anything outside your self Tacker. There’s nothing but air and water past the self tacker - or a bowsprit. Take a closer look at the pic I posted. The top picture shows the self tacker in action. There is nothing beyond it. Although in this particular picture there is a bowsprit beyond it because it is there to hold the code 0 or screecher you see in the bottom pic

Actually let me go take a quick picture for you. Outside. There is only one attachment point for a forestay. And that is the place the self tacker goes. There is nothing beyond it but air.
No second attachment point is because a second furler wasn't planned for in the rig. Which means adding one would be more work, as you'd have to add attachment points top and bottom for a second forestay. There's no reason that couldn't be done though. But you wouldn't do that and a bowsprit, it would be one or the other. Having both wouldn't be useful. So because you're planning a bowsprit, the Solent rig becomes impractical.

As an example, here are a couple of cats with Solent rigs (the second one also has a retractable bowsprit and the inner jib is self tacking):



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Old 01-09-2023, 12:43   #397
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

One of the rig options - and the way we're most likely going - is to have a self tacking staysail on a removable inner furler aft of the main forestay. On the forestay (where the forebeam intersects) is an overlapping genoa. On the bowsprit is the code/spinnaker.

Or we can go with a self taking jib on the forestay and a code/spinnaker in bowsprit.
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:23   #398
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Say what you want but I would put the self tacking jib on the inner stay if that would be available, even a cutter stay (not a baby stay of course), then on the forestay I would put a genoa.

I wouldn’t buy the code zero with furler because of cost. I would buy an asymmetric in a sock, with a tack line from a block or ring on the bowsprit. And a symmetric to fly from both bows.
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:29   #399
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I think I will stick with the de facto standard for high-performance boats.

I’m not doing anything weird here.

I can’t fathom why anyone would reduce the sail area of the self Tacker. It’s already small enough. Not to mention the balance of the boat would be thrown off. It would introduce weather helm.

Go big or go home. That’s how you do it. Lol.

Additional sails will be larger than the forestay. That’s just how it’s done on performance boats.
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:31   #400
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I think I will stick with the de facto standard for high-performance boats.

Iím not doing anything weird here.
Nothing wrong with that. The Solent setup isn't a higher performing option by any means, it's an ease of use thing (as you have a big jib and a small jib both ready to go, but you only use 1 or the other at any given time).
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:31   #401
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I think I will stick with the de facto standard for high-performance boats.

Iím not doing anything weird here.
I wouldnít add any chainplates but the pictures posted are genuine and the second clearly like I describe. Doesnít look like a Wharram or Prout eitherÖ
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:35   #402
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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No second attachment point is because a second furler wasn't planned for in the rig. Which means adding one would be more work, as you'd have to add attachment points top and bottom for a second forestay. There's no reason that couldn't be done though. But you wouldn't do that and a bowsprit, it would be one or the other. Having both wouldn't be useful. So because you're planning a bowsprit, the Solent rig becomes impractical.

As an example, here are a couple of cats with Solent rigs (the second one also has a retractable bowsprit and the inner jib is self tacking):




The first boat doesn’t count. A Gemini? There is no beam. It’s got a solid fore deck all the way to the bows which is a crime on a boat like mine. You can’t do that on my type of boat. You’ll die. Other than the hundreds and hundreds of pounds it would add, it’s pitchpole city.

The second one has a big heavy monster of a nacelle that is reminiscent of a trimaran.

You have to remember what kind of boat I have going here. Look at a gunboat 48. You’ll be pretty close. It’s almost identical. I don’t have some big heavy glob of fiberglass forward like that boat. I have a 10lbs walkway to get up to the bow tube/beam.

Be thankful I’m sticking to my guns here. When you get your ride on this thing in the spring, you’ll be happy that it has performance lol
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:38   #403
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I wouldnít add any chainplates but the pictures posted are genuine and the second clearly like I describe. Doesnít look like a Wharram or Prout eitherÖ

Itís an abomination. Look underneath. Look at all of that extra weight. Trash. Mine weighs 10 pounds where that thing weighs hundreds and hundreds of extra pounds.
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:38   #404
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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The first boat doesn’t count. A Gemini? There is no beam. It’s got a solid fore deck all the way to the bows which is a crime on a boat like mine. You can’t do that on my type of boat. You’ll die.

The second one has a big heavy monster of a nacelle that is reminiscent of a trimaran.

You have to remember what kind of boat I have going here. Look at a gunboat 48. You’ll be pretty close. It’s almost identical. I don’t have some big heavy glob of fiberglass forward like that boat. I have a 10-15lbs walkway to get up to the bow tube/beam.
I've seen Solent rigs spaced much closer than those pictures, so there's no reason you couldn't do it structurally. Basically you'd put one at the forward edge of the crossbeam, one at the aft edge. You only need enough clearance that the furler drums don't touch. With them spaced tightly, you beat to windward with the inner (smaller) jib, as you have to furl the outer one to tack when you're using it.
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Old 01-09-2023, 13:41   #405
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

GunboatÖ looks like they do the self tacking jib on the inner stay as well, see attachment.

Again, your chainplates decide how you do it.
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