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Old 18-08-2023, 08:55   #271
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Even if you don't plan to use it later, it might be worth throwing 1 or 2 cheap winches (don't have be self tailing) on the mast and a cleat or 2 below each. They might come in handy exactly for situations like this. Or when you're using a halyard to lift something someday and it's easier to stand at the mast and manage the situation vs winching from the control table inside.
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Old 18-08-2023, 09:38   #272
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Ha! I think I get it now, you are not planning to mount winches on the mast at all! Man I don’t like that
That is correct!

Very little use for them other than maybe a little easier when flying a spinnaker from a sock. Maybe.

The rest of the time they just sit there doing nothing.

For clarity, the difference between where you are talking about putting winches on the mast and where the plinth is is 4-5ft down and 3ft aft.

But mine are much more safe. No need to go up on deck for anything, so no falling and getting injured, no risk of going overboard.

Also much more likely to put in a reef when the weather is bad if you don’t have to get rain gear on. Notably you can also sail in extreme heat and cold without difficulty.

Over the years I have always had my main halyard going aft to the cockpit even in an open cockpit boat. Never mind the center cockpits that I have had.

So that leaves the head sails for use on the winches on the mast. Totally useless. Once you haul that thing up into the Furler, it just sits there for all of eternity.

They are never even used. That’s just dead weight.

The only exception was the 50 foot Gulfstar center cockpit I had a couple years back. That one had in Mast furling, so the halyard was not lead back. It was not used at all.
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Old 18-08-2023, 09:48   #273
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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That is correct!

Very little use for them other than maybe a little easier when flying a spinnaker from a sock. Maybe.

The rest of the time they just sit there doing nothing.

For clarity, the difference between where you are talking about putting winches on the mast and where the plinth is is 4-5ft down and 3ft aft.

But mine are much more safe. No need to go up on deck for anything, so no falling and getting injured, no goin overboard.

Also much more likely to put in a reef when the weather is bad if you donít have to get rain gear on.

Over the years I have always had my main halyard going aft to the cockpit even in an open cockpit boat. Never mind the center cockpits that I have had.

So that leaves the head sails for use on the winches on the mast. Totally useless. Once you haul that thing up into the Furler, it just sits there for all of eternity.

They are never even used. Thatís just dead weight.
I have an electric halyard winch aft of the masts too (multiple because of two masts) but I still have two winches on each mast as well. I use the mast winches more than the electrics, but Iím sure I probably do things very different

Now that I have an electric winch handle, I use the mast winches even more!
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Old 18-08-2023, 09:51   #274
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I have an electric halyard winch aft of the masts too (multiple because of two masts) but I still have two winches on each mast as well. I use the mast winches more than the electrics, but I’m sure I probably do things very different

Now that I have an electric winch handle, I use the mast winches even more!
Ok, you have piqued my curiosity.

Why do you prefer to go to the mast to manage halyards vs from the cockpit?

And yes. We probably do things a little bit differently. I am just a lazy cruiser. Ha ha.

Most of my sailing is actually “set it and forget it” until things get crowded or winds shift.

So I take the lazy way out. I like everything to be brought to the cockpit.

In my personal case, if things are easier, I will be more likely to do them. As in I will not be motoring at all with this set up. This is designed to be very, very easy to sail and manage single-handed. That’s why I built this particular kind of boat. So I could sail all the time instead of having to motor. Yes, some of that have to do with the design of the boat. But part of it is also a psychological and has to do with me personally. If it’s really really hard and I have to go out there in freezing rain or snow or the worst heat imaginable, I am probably going to motor lol

So by making everything easy to use, I will be salling instead.
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Old 18-08-2023, 09:53   #275
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

I also agree with the everything brought to the cockpit philosophy. But as mentioned, for certain things (like hoisting a spinnaker in a sock), having a winch at the mast may come in handy. So having one there gives flexibility even if you're typically doing things from inside.
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Old 18-08-2023, 10:05   #276
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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I also agree with the everything brought to the cockpit philosophy. But as mentioned, for certain things (like hoisting a spinnaker in a sock), having a winch at the mast may come in handy. So having one there gives flexibility even if you're typically doing things from inside.
Maybe someday I’ll add that extra weight if I feel like I need it.

I’m not opposed to other ideas. But at first I will just put what I need on.

As I have said from the beginning of the build “every pound counts”. It’s why the boat is a performer. No excess weight. Add things only when you need them if at all.

By the way, it already has cleats on it.
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Old 18-08-2023, 10:13   #277
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Well, of course you donít have a pole so thatís a number of control lines we do with mast winches. Then there is the Cunningham, donít you have that? I suppose you get single line reefing, all led aft? I often do the leech from the mast while Iím supposed to use the electric winch but I like to handle the sail up close. The luff is separate and I use my Cunningham for the luff.

I like to transfer my halyards to the mast mounted winches for longer passages because it eliminates chafe from the clutches.

Then I hoist a thousand things with them. Removable bowsprit, batteries, washers, anchors, spinnakers, sometimes even my anchor when itís fouled and the list is endless
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Old 18-08-2023, 10:29   #278
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Well, of course you don’t have a pole so that’s a number of control lines we do with mast winches. Then there is the Cunningham, don’t you have that? I suppose you get single line reefing, all led aft? I often do the leech from the mast while I’m supposed to use the electric winch but I like to handle the sail up close. The luff is separate and I use my Cunningham for the luff.

I like to transfer my halyards to the mast mounted winches for longer passages because it eliminates chafe from the clutches.

Then I hoist a thousand things with them. Removable bowsprit, batteries, washers, anchors, spinnakers, sometimes even my anchor when it’s fouled and the list is endless
Ah!!! Ok! I see!

Thanks for sharing that. I was curious.

Yes. My reefing will all be done from the plinth or control table as well, no pole, etc.

I don’t really know what my situation will be with the Cunningham. That will be something I have to check into. Certainly not something to control from the plinth I don’t think. So unknown

I’m addressing the issue of chafe by using these:



The traditional rope clutches and stoppers seem like they are going to abuse my expensive dyneema halyards.

For hauling purposes, that does make some sense. So you can see the load as you are hauling it better.

I have a topping lift for that and will be using the boom. May even be lifting a small motorcycle. Maybe. Some of that will be figured out when needed.
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Old 18-08-2023, 11:10   #279
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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Ah!!! Ok! I see!

Thanks for sharing that. I was curious.

Yes. My reefing will all be done from the plinth or control table as well, no pole, etc.

I donít really know what my situation will be with the Cunningham. That will be something I have to check into. Certainly not something to control from the plinth I donít think. So unknown

Iím addressing the issue of chafe by using these:



The traditional rope clutches and stoppers seem like they are going to abuse my expensive dyneema halyards.

For hauling purposes, that does make some sense. So you can see the load as you are hauling it better.

I have a topping lift for that and will be using the boom. May even be lifting a small motorcycle. Maybe. Some of that will be figured out when needed.
We often lift big, heavy items from the dock straight through a deck hatch inside the boat. We have very large hatches that a washing machine fits through.

I like the constrictor clutches and they are affordable. You know you can DIY those? You still need a strong point like a cleat or pad eye but the clutch is just an UCR (Utility Constrictor Rope, Google it for fun).
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Old 19-08-2023, 04:13   #280
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

On each turnbuckle to chain plate pin should I make one continuous loop of dyneema around and around, or a couple different loops?

Getting the load spread properly on a couple different ones seems impossible. But also, it seems to provide some redundancy in case of failure.

Guessing a single loop round and round is better since the load is spread better.
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Old 19-08-2023, 07:02   #281
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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On each turnbuckle to chain plate pin should I make one continuous loop of dyneema around and around, or a couple different loops?

Getting the load spread properly on a couple different ones seems impossible. But also, it seems to provide some redundancy in case of failure.

Guessing a single loop round and round is better since the load is spread better.
As long as thereís a single steel wire shroud, thereís no redundancy. It must be one loop to get the load balanced on all strands. This is also why to limit at three wraps and there must be enough room for them at the pin.
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Old 19-08-2023, 07:14   #282
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

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As long as there’s a single steel wire shroud, there’s no redundancy. It must be one loop to get the load balanced on all strands. This is also why to limit at three wraps and there must be enough room for them at the pin.
OK. Thank you. That’s what I was thinking. No way to balance the load unless it’s a single loop around and around.

The breaking strength of 6mm Dyneema is a little over 7000 pounds. They tell you to put 10% or 15% load on dyneema. My righting moment is 14,000lbs.

So… that’s 14 “legs” of dyneema or 7 loops.

Seems like I can’t get that on a pin, no?

I would need intermediate hardware?

Or maybe something is wrong with the 15% loading.

Also, I used the following to calculate my righting moment with the absolute super maximum displacement of 18,000lbs for this boat even though it weighs less. That’s more like if it were sank all the way down to waterline.

https://catamaranconcepts.com/tag/righting-moment/
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Old 19-08-2023, 09:15   #283
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Well, I am stuck.

I guess I have to wait until a weekday when people are actually looking at this thing lol

I have to get seven wraps per shroud and I have two shrouds. Thatís 14 wraps on the chainplate pin.

I just tried and the most wraps of 6mm that can fit on the chain plate pin is 6.

Starting to wonder if I should just get all new stainless shroud but that presents the whole problem of trying to connect two of those to one pin also.
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Old 19-08-2023, 09:38   #284
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

OK. A lot of posts to myself here but I clarified the number discrepancy. I was looking online at the different breaking strengths. I needed to look at the rope manufacturer, which is California Cordage.


California Cordage:
6mm = 8,360lbs
9mm = 23,320 lbs

But New England Ropes lists:
9mm = 58,610lbs

Why so different??
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Old 19-08-2023, 10:28   #285
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Re: Chotuís Advanced Standing Rigging Thread (lots of pics)

Youíve lost me. You said you were gonna use 9mm pre-stretched and heat set Dyneema and I did the math.

Now you say itís 6mm?

Also, you donít do 10-15% of the breaking strength of the shroud; you do 10-15% of the load where for steel wire they do 30-50% . This is to cope with creep.

I had calculated three loops was okay but it seems we first need to make sure what size wire your shrouds are and what size/type Dyneema is used.
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