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View Poll Results: Material used to lash the wire rope to the spreader tip, how much play to allow
single-strand stainless seizing wire, allowing no vertical movement 1 25.00%
multi-strand stainless wire, allowing no vertical movement 0 0%
synthetic cord, allowing no vertical movement 0 0%
natural fiber cord, allowing no vertical movement 0 0%
single-strand stainless seizing wire, allowing 1/2 inch vertical movement 1 25.00%
multi-strand stainless wire, allowing 1/2 inch vertical movement 0 0%
synthetic cord, allowing 1/2 inch vertical movement 0 0%
natural fiber cord, allowing 1/2 inch vertical movement 0 0%
single-strand stainless seizing wire, allowing 1 inch vertical movement 2 50.00%
multi-strand stainless wire, allowing 1 inch vertical movement 0 0%
synthetic cord, allowing 1 inch vertical movement 0 0%
natural fiber cord, allowing 1 inch vertical movement 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2019, 19:35   #1
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Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader tip

Hi folks,

Would you please post or send me a link to a diagram or video that explains how to lash the wire rope to the spreader tip, with a small piece of codline, cord, or with stainless seizing wire? I haven’t figured out how to make a piece of line or wire hold onto the shroud (so slippery), so it doesn’t move up and down through the spreader tip.

I’m not talking about keeping the shroud attached to the end, horizontally. It runs through a plate at the tip of the spreader, so that is taken care of. See picture.

I have a 33' mast, with airfoil spreaders, and very sturdy brackets that maintain the angle of the spreaders. The shrouds are 3/16 stainless wire rope.

My spreaders don't have holes at the ends, for passing cod line or seizing wire through. I'm thinking of a loop around the spreader end, then using the cod line or wire to lash or seize the shroud.

Another detail: I'm thinking of leaving a little slack in the line between the spreader tip and the part of the line or wire that seizes the shroud. This way, if the lashing or seizing is firm, when the rig flexes, it doesn't pull the spreader up and down every time it flexes. I just want to maintain the correct angle of the spreader, relative to the mast.

Another choice: Stainless seizing wire or some kind of cod line or cord? It seems that a piece of cord could provide more friction. However, it would also hold more moisture against the shroud. If using seizing wire, do you recommend multi-strand or single strand wire? I have some stainless multi-strand picture hanging wire that is rated for 100 lbs. I also have some single strand stainless seizing wire.

Please vote, in the associated poll, regarding the material used for lashing or seizing the shrouds, as well as the amount of slack to allow above and below , to allow vertical movement of the shroud through the spreader tip.

Although the image shows a boot, I'm planning on not using spreader boots. For that decision, we have other threads.

Thank you!
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Old 01-11-2019, 23:26   #2
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

The angle you need to be concerned about is the angle at which the spreader intersects t
he shroud. The spreader should be perpendicular to the shroud. The spreader may have to be canted upwards a bit to get there, but there is where it needs to be to best support the mast.

Perhaps your Merit is set up so that that happens automatically. That would be good. If there has been no provision before for an end cap, they may have used lashings above and below to limit spreader movement.

If you're aware of a Merit group, they could be a source of info on this subject.

Ann
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Old 01-11-2019, 23:43   #3
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

I agree with Ann. I’m sure there have been enough of these built for there to be a source for owners. If you are unsuccessful then try contacting a rigger.

It looks like the tangs at the mast are canted up a bit. It is possible that the correct angle is set so that shroud angle is bisected. If this was done correctly the designer may have intended for the cable to be free within the retainer pictured.

If you decide to add a restraint, consider a two piece bronze or SS clamp collar on the cable above and below the spreader.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:46   #4
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

Here's one way of lashing (based on the Prusik Knot or Triple Sliding Hitch).


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Old 02-11-2019, 02:07   #5
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

I use SS wire rope clips. One clip under each spreader tip. I've never found the need for clips or anything above the spreader tip. Probably all wrong but they have been there for years. / Len


https://www.suncorstainless.com/wire-rope-clips
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:41   #6
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
The angle you need to be concerned about is the angle at which the spreader intersects t
he shroud. The spreader should be perpendicular to the shroud. The spreader may have to be canted upwards a bit to get there, but there is where it needs to be to best support the mast.

Perhaps your Merit is set up so that that happens automatically. That would be good. If there has been no provision before for an end cap, they may have used lashings above and below to limit spreader movement.

If you're aware of a Merit group, they could be a source of info on this subject.

Ann
Hi Ann,
Thank you. I disagree about the spreader angle being horizontal, but agree about the bracket being designed to provide the proper angle.

Your suggestion about looking for a Merit group might help a lot. Unfortunately, I just searched and found no groups. There might have been a Yahoo discussion group, associated with the Arizona Yacht Club, but the group disappeared. I did find a charter company that owns a bunch of them, and a sailing club that owns two. Both organizations are close to where I live.
Rick
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:02   #7
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

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Originally Posted by rpeskett View Post
Hi Ann,

Thank you. I disagree about the spreader angle being horizontal, but agree about the bracket being designed to provide the proper angle.




I donít recall seeing anything about horizontal.

The spreader needs to bisect the angle of the shroud as itís bent over the spreader.

In our case itís a 5degree up angle to the spreader. Yours may vary.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:49   #8
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Here's one way of lashing (based on the Prusik Knot or Triple Sliding Hitch).


Thank you, Mr. May! I've seen that Catalina image, before, but the names of the knots seems to be exactly what I needed. I just watched a video of tying a Prusik hitch. It's impressive and my next knot to learn. If it can hold a rock climber, when used with rope, maybe it can hold my spreader, when used with wire rope. I see that the Prusik is also called a triple sliding hitch, and it is a friction hitch. However, according to https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/prusik-types/, "They can slide up and down easily, but lock around the rope when weighted." So, I'm looking for another friction hitch. ...then, I learned that friction hitches (Klemheist, icicleÖ) slip when not under load. According to Wikipedia, ďThe August 2009 edition of Practical Sailor magazine tested various knots used for lengthwise tension applications, and came to the conclusion that when using modern synthetic rope the rolling hitch could not be regarded as secure. They recommended the Icicle hitch as a replacement.[10] ď But, thatís another friction hitch. So, Iím still searching.

"Related to Prusik knot:
Klemheist knot, Blake's hitch, Cow hitch, Bachmann knot" (forgot the source).

I might give up and just go back to using spreader boots and relying on the friction between the rubber boot and the shroud, clamped down with a couple ziplocks, to stop vertical movement. That's what the last guy did, with my rig, and with this minimal friction (I could easily slide the shrouds up and down through the ends of the spreaders, with these boots attached this way) it didn't break the mast, even in storms. We wrote about this in my other thread (...shrouds ...vertical movement...)

Thank you,
Rick
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:40   #9
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Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

When I replaced my rigging, I found S.S. hose clamps tightened around the shroud above and below the spreader tip. I did the same, but I also ran SS seizing wire between the 2 hose clamps so both clamps would have to slide for the spreader to move.... Bisect the angle
A side note, make sure whatever boot you put over it for chafe protection is allowed to drain/dry out. Mine was wrapped too much with tape and there was significant corrosion of the AL spreader tip from standing water.
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Old 02-11-2019, 13:21   #10
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Smile Re: Choice of material, diagram or video that explains how to lash shroud to spreader

Quote:
Originally Posted by zstine View Post
When I replaced my rigging, I found S.S. hose clamps tightened around the shroud above and below the spreader tip. I did the same, but I also ran SS seizing wire between the 2 hose clamps so both clamps would have to slide for the spreader to move.... Bisect the angle
A side note, make sure whatever boot you put over it for chafe protection is allowed to drain/dry out. Mine was wrapped too much with tape and there was significant corrosion of the AL spreader tip from standing water.
Hi,
Thank you! I'm abandoning the tying of knots and going with SS wire rope clips, with the U-bolt, like the link deblen posted. I like your idea of a wire holding the clamps together. This could also allow less torque on the clips and less strain on the wire rope.

Yes, I've been thinking about water in spreader boots for weeks. I even posted a poll about this, with different options for drainage, but it didn't get much attention. I'm probably going with no boots, because holes in them, for drainage, would allow wasps to make a home on my spreaders.

I'm going to turn the bolts toward the center of the boat, to protect the sails, maybe grind the ends of the bolts off and file them smooth, then cover the clips with teflon tape, only in horizontal rings. This should leave plenty of ventilation for drying.

I wonder what you folks think of this, what experience you have with it.

Thanks,
Rick
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