carbon mast - experiences anybody?

[gulfcoastsailor]

My Freedom 32 has a CF mast stepped to the keel. No standing rigging... no spreaders! Self-tailing jib so no foresail winches. Properly equipped I would not hesitate to take this boat anywhere��

[foufou]

I have several carbon masts on small boats and while there are comments about the difficulty of adding parts I find quite the opposite. My spreader brackets are carbon made on a small mold to fit the mast and then epoxied on. Has been on there for years. And the comment about a solent stay is also the opposite of my experience. My hounds fitting consists of a piece of carbon ( or glass) cloth about 8"x4" with the third of the short strands pulled out and the middle of this patch twisted into a rope around a thimble and "pasted" onto the mast with the entire thing epoxied. Sailed hard for ten years no problem. Just scale up the concept for larger boats. Bilge's comment about UV is right on. These parts need paint. More than one coat and they should be fine.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Bilgewater,

A lightning strike is not always a death sentence to a carbon rig, but you absolutely do need a lightning conductor down the rig, particularly if you are using composite shrouds.

Off hand I can't think of any budget cruisers that use carbon rigs, but quite a lot of premium brands use exclusively carbon. Basically unless you are building to a price point everyone is using carbon rigs these days.

Swan
Oyster
Hinkley

I took a hit on my CF mast back in 2008. It had been equipped at the factory with internal copper conductor from the masthead plate to the base plate, and that was grounded through a stainless compression post to a dynaplate underwater.

It blew my raymarine instruments, audio systems, several lights, fog/hailer, and the engine controls.

I hauled the boat for professional hull inspection, and dropped the mast for a separate riggers inspection. No damage to either.

Now putting all that aside, there’s no way I’d lay out the $$$$$ (yes 5 figures) for CF if my boat already came with a perfectly good aluminum one that is still in good service.

[double u]

...I wasn't talking of forking out for a cf stick! given a choice I'd always opt for an alloy spar for TNB.
on some secondhand boats in the segment we are looking at right now are CF spars though:
https://www.devalk.nl/de/jachtmakler...SALONA-42.html
https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1233830/
and more...

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by double u

...I wasn't talking of forking out for a cf stick! given a choice I'd always opt for an alloy spar for TNB.
on some secondhand boats in the segment we are looking at right now are CF spars though:
https://www.devalk.nl/de/jachtmakler...SALONA-42.html
https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1233830/
and more...

I wouldn't let a CF mast put me off a sale, that's for sure.
If the rig wasn't configured the way that I wanted as she currently is, however, I would probably walk away unless the price was great. I don't know how much it would cost to have the rig re-configured to add a solent stay, but it's definitely a job for a rig manufacturer (probably the original maker), and it won't be cheap. I don't think that any but a very few of us could manage to DIY it on a 40'+ boat.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by double u

...I wasn't talking of forking out for a cf stick! given a choice I'd always opt for an alloy spar for TNB.
on some secondhand boats in the segment we are looking at right now are CF spars though:
https://www.devalk.nl/de/jachtmakler...SALONA-42.html
https://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1233830/
and more...

Sorry, I didn't get that from your initial post. In that case -- all else equal comparing two boats I would definitely view a CF mast as a big "plus" in terms of performance. Longevity about the same, maybe longer when you consider corrosion/oxidation of aluminum. If it isn't already equipped, add a #8 AWG internal copper ground wire from masthead plate to base, next time you pull the stick for some other reason.

[double u]

...the talk for a solentstay-tang was of >€3000...
sure it'd be a plus in performance & motion...but just adding maststeps seems to be a headache already...then I'd want runners/checkstays & maybe a 2/3 cutter-stay, if it is varnished it would have to be painted...

[gamayun]

I have a CF mast (all Freedoms do) and one of the things I am faced with all the time are ideas from friends about how I need to modify my rig to do this or that. I think if that's your MO type, then don't get a boat with a CF mast. I mean, certainly it CAN be modified, if you do it right and understand the changes in forced it might entail, but you really need to ask "why do I need to make these changes?". I love the way my boat sails with a CF spar; others prefer a million ways to tweak their spars. To each his own. Maybe figure out what you want and can live with and then make your boat decision accordingly. The CF and AL masts is like comparing apples to oranges with different attributes and certainly different adherents to each.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Bilgewater,

A lightning strike is not always a death sentence to a carbon rig, but you absolutely do need a lightning conductor down the rig, particularly if you are using composite shrouds.

Off hand I can't think of any budget cruisers that use carbon rigs, but quite a lot of premium brands use exclusively carbon. Basically unless you are building to a price point everyone is using carbon rigs these days.

Swan
Oyster
Hinkley

There are some dandy Freedom boats out there on sailboat listings, a few freshwater boats in the Lake Michigan area. And east coast too.
Incidentally, there’s a derelict freedom in the marina here , in a slip. Shredded sail covers . A slight list to starboard. Mast is ok but in need of paint. Story is the owner died and the widow just pays the slip fees in respect....
Heard she offered it to a local for 500 but it’s a project. Don’t know how long it’s sat but at least three years. Apparently no damn Yankees allowed lol.
Maybe I should turn on my southern charm and give it a go. I sold the cruisette so maybe....
I’ll get some pics... if it ain’t raining....
I’m not sure of the model I’ll step it off and get a closer look.
On the subject of carbon masts, anybody got a broken one with a salvageable 12ft or so section?

[double u]

"...need to modify my rig to do this or that..."
well gamayun, I'm not modification addicted, but anybody would want a solentstay on a blue-water-boat, not just a roller furler. of course one could use hank-on foresails & do away with the furler, but we are in our 60ies now & after 3 rtws with hank-on foresails I'm looking forward to not standing kneedeep in water on the foredeck at 3 in the morning every time sail has to be reduced on a reach...

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by double u

"...need to modify my rig to do this or that..."
well gamayun, I'm not modification addicted, but anybody would want a solentstay on a blue-water-boat, not just a roller furler. of course one could use hank-on foresails & do away with the furler, but we are in our 60ies now & after 3 rtws with hank-on foresails I'm looking forward to not standing kneedeep in water on the foredeck at 3 in the morning every time sail has to be reduced on a reach...

Yeah, I understand that. It's why a Freedom rig is nice (for me). There's only one hank on self-tending gib and it's so small you kinda set it and forget it. It does have this annoying habit of flopping around in a down wind breeze when blanketed by the main. This is the issue that one of my friends wants to fix by adding a pole to the mix and attaching a dongle to the CF spar. I'm not convinced. The main sail; however, is a beast, all 550+ SF of it sits far forward on the bow and is the power daddy on my boat. There's no holding the main sheet when that thing goes over on a jybe. Of course, when it's reefed and that CF bends off a bit to spill wind in a puff, I smile every time.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

... If it isn't already equipped, add a #8 AWG internal copper ground wire from masthead plate to base, next time you pull the stick for some other reason.

Actually, #4 AWG copper is the (currently) minimum recommended downconductor size.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Actually, #4 AWG copper is the (currently) minimum recommended downconductor size.

Yes, but the reason I recommended #8 is that I read in a lightning researchers site (univ of Florida) that #8 is rated to withstand one strike, where #4 should be able to withstand multiple strikes.

#8 is half the weight and MUCH easier to bend and work with, and the chance is close to nil that the same boat would be struck a second time before a wire can be inspected/replaced.

Also, why add extra weight aloft that would partially negate the justification for a CF mast?

[boatpoker]

There are many surveyors out there touting their use of thermal imagers in the course of a normal survey. These people are charlatans. These are complex pieces of equipment and are simply not workable in a "normal" survey. However ..... I did some work with Derek Hatfield on his Open 60 (Spirit of Canada) which was entirely carbon fiber including some Flir imaging of carbon fibre after induced damage. Even the most rank amateur with an hour of playing with a thermal camera can find flaws in Carbon fibre. If you have a Carbon Fibre mast, I recommend a low end thermal camera in your tool box.

Moisture Meter Mythology & Flir Thermal Imager.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

There are many surveyors out there touting their use of thermal imagers in the course of a normal survey. These people are charlatans. These are complex pieces of equipment and are simply not workable in a "normal" survey. However ..... I did some work with Derek Hatfield on his Open 60 (Spirit of Canada) which was entirely carbon fiber including some Flir imaging of carbon fibre after induced damage. Even the most rank amateur with an hour of playing with a thermal camera can find flaws in Carbon fibre. If you have a Carbon Fibre mast, I recommend a low end thermal camera in your tool box.

Moisture Meter Mythology & Flir Thermal Imager.

I had trouble with your link - this worked Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager