C&C 35 Landfall Main Halyard Sheave

[Nengaku]

I'm trying to replace my main halyard sheave. It seems the axle was attached to this plate (only one side). Everything is frozen. A licensed shipright managed to break off the plate and now the end of the axle is exposed flush to the mast. Does anybody know if this axle was supposed to just pull put with that plate attached or (as the shipright insists) does it screw out?

[david samuelson]

Hi, I don't know your boat but of the many I have seen it does NOT screw in. Never seen one screwed in. You've got an ss pin corroded into the alloy.

[phorvati]

I think you will have to drill that out. I am not sure how much tapping/pressing you can do but i would be cautions of cracking the mast. That looks like a landfall with rod rig. I didn't think landfalls had rod. What year? Is the standing rigging original or is this something that was re-done? I may know the original rigger and will forward you his info so you can call him.

[Nengaku]

Thanks phorvati. Yes it is a 35 Landfall with rod rigging (original, unfortunately) 1983. If I could talk to the original rigger that would be FANTASTIC!

[neilpride]

The axle is atached to the tiny plate, and i dont want to be pesimist, but last time we have a similar problem with a sheave like that and a tricolor wrecked with all the screws frozen in the mast head , we end droping the mast and doing a complete refit in the mast as owner request after strugling up there with torch, screw drivers , hamer impact, etc,....

Go up there with a small propane torch, i guess the screw is off, heat the plate, put a small line in the sheave so it dont fall down inside of the mast , and punch the sheave from the other side when hot, hopefully it come off , probably the problem is the sheave corroded and froozen in the sheave axle, spray some pb blaster there and good luck...

[neilpride]

Original rod rigging 1983?? wow.!!! if you decide to replace the rigging, change to wire , easy to inspect and cheaper..... Just a opinion...

[phorvati]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Original rod rigging 1983?? wow.!!! if you decide to replace the rigging, change to wire , easy to inspect and cheaper..... Just a opinion...

I am not so sure wire braid is easy to inspect. You can never tell what goes on inside a wire braid swage. And salt water can definitely get in there, and worst yet, it stays stagnant. Wirebraid is safe cause it usually gives advance notice before breaking where rod snaps at ones.
With Rod, you can disassemble and magnaflux everything. No swages. There is no place for water to creep in.

The original rigger is Frank Collenary, Bay Sailing Equipment 508-678-4419.
Great guy, knowledgeable, informative, and doesn't mind sharing the knowledge and explaining everything.
My rig was 1976 -10 rod. I spent a day with him and replaced some parts. Let me know If need more info.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by phorvati

I am not so sure wire braid is easy to inspect. You can never tell what goes on inside a wire braid swage. And salt water can definitely get in there, and worst yet, it stays stagnant. Wirebraid is safe cause it usually gives advance notice before breaking where rod snaps at ones.
With Rod, you can disassemble and magnaflux everything. No swages. There is no place for water to creep in.

The original rigger is Frank Collenary, Bay Sailing Equipment 508-678-4419.
Great guy, knowledgeable, informative, and doesn't mind sharing the knowledge and explaining everything.
My rig was 1976 -10 rod. I spent a day with him and replaced some parts. Let me know If need more info.

No, negative, the heads in the rod are inside of the fitting in backstays , lowers and uppers are sometimes fited with a head asembly with full articulation, in the case of the backstay , the cap and cone are asembled and later there is a couple of punchs small holes to prevent the fittings to work loose, if the uppers are discontinuous at the spreaders also sport this cap cone fitting, so in sum to inspect deep a rod riiging setup you need to disamble lots of things , most failures are cracks at the rod heads or the bronze cones. i see a couple of old big Swans change the original rod to wire for long cruising, rod is good for racing , low stretch, low weight in many cases , and stronger than wire, nitronic 50 is very strong,, but for cruising to me is a no no..

As i say with wire the first sign of fatigue in the wire is a broken strand , easy to detect and easy to make a temporary repair, wire swages sometimes get a crack sometimes not, i see swages broken in half due internal corrosion, so if i want to make a repair lets say in the pacific , my vote for wire, if the rod is close to fail it fail without warning...
Cheers...

Ohhh and i see you have a C&C 38, great boat, i own a C&C 40 long long time agoo,, super boat...

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Original rod rigging 1983?? wow.!!! if you decide to replace the rigging, change to wire , easy to inspect and cheaper..... Just a opinion...

One thing about rod rigging is it has no crevices to get corrosion in, and it can be inspected with confidence. also it might be Nitronic 40 or N 50 which is far superior to the 18-8 SS types commonly used. (304/316 etc) Inside a swaged wire fitting (or right at the exit) you really cant inspect well and dont know what you have....

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by neilpride

The axle is atached to the tiny plate, and i dont want to be pesimist, but last time we have a similar problem with a sheave like that ........... etc.....there and good luck...

So... it's an aluminum axle? how would it be attached to the plate if it's SS...?
OP: is there a plate on the other side also?

[sabray]

It looks like it is a captive plate. The screw would hold the plate in place and the pin behind it. Probably one on either side. I'm guessing.

[neilpride]

No,the axle is ss 316 welded to the plate , i have the same axle and plate in my boom, for reef lines sheaves, you screw off the tiny screw and the whole thing come apart from one side, not sure if is welded in c&c , the sheave are aluminium with probably a ss bushing in the center...

Wire swages can be inspected from the exterior for cracks , usually at the point where the wire enter in the swage, same as rod heads are captive in the cones and cap fitting, most rod failures are fatige cycle, saying that,,, rod is expensive to inspect and expensive to replace, expensive to shiping overseas, few cruising boats use rod for their boats, if i remember shanon, c&c, baltic, swans... nothing wrong with rod, is stronger than wire even i enjoy my c&c with rod rigging, but for long term cruising dont make sense, many local riggers out there dont have the tools or spare parts to fix problems, here is a pic of a rod head cracked, the point where most rod rigging fail, and this head is sometimes hiden inside of a cap fitting

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sabray

It looks like it is a captive plate. The screw would hold the plate in place and the pin behind it. Probably one on either side. I'm guessing.

Yeah, I would hope it's a SS pin with two plates so you can drive it out.... but stupid things have been done in the past!
OP, when you do replace it.. put Lanolin or Lanocoat on the pin (only where it goes into the aluminum) and it'll never seize.
If it has two plates and just wont come out by other means drill a large hole in the pin for maybe 1/2"-3/4" into either end and then try driving it out. If it's a 1/2" pin maybe a 5/16 hole. this should allow the pin to shrink and come loose. Use a punch same diameter as the pin.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by neilpride

No,the axle is ss 316 welded to the plate , i have the same axle and plate in my boom, for reef lines sheaves, you screw off the tiny screw and the whole thing come apart from one side, not sure if is welded in c&c , the sheave are aluminium with probably a ss bushing in the center...

Wire swages can be inspected from the exterior for cracks , usually at the point where the wire enter in the swage, same as rod heads are captive in the cones and cap fitting, most rod failures are fatige cycle, saying that,,, rod is expensive to inspect and expensive to replace, expensive to shiping overseas, few cruising boats use rod for their boats, if i remember shanon, c&c, baltic, swans... nothing wrong with rod, is stronger than wire even i enjoy my c&c with rod rigging, but for long term cruising dont make sense, many local riggers out there dont have the tools or spare parts to fix problems, here is a pic of a rod head cracked, the point where most rod rigging fail, and this head is sometimes hiden inside of a cap fitting

I guess we crossed posts.... That plate looked like alum, but on closer look maybe it is SS. wierd way to do it.. how in the heck will you ever get it apart...?

[neilpride]

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