Anchor Riding Sail - thoughts, experiences and designs

[kas_1611]

As much as I enjoy sitting on anchor and watching the world rotate around me for a change swinging through what feels like 180º is not much fun in a blow. These seems to be a common issue with modern cruisers with their flatter hulls and fin keels.

So I have been thinking about a riding sail to try to reduce the amount of swing we suffer. As such I wanted to pick the collective grey matter for other people's thoughts and experiences of using a riding sail and for ideas on designs.

I have an in mast furling main on a bermudan rig so when the main is away the boom is completely clear. My first instinct is for a vertical, right angled sail with the hypotenuse running up and attached to the topping lift and a short foot held tight by a Y strop ratcheted to either the vang mount or the kicker mount under the boom (depending on how far forward you want the pull to be). This would look, in effect, much like a small mizzen mast sail.

What does anyone else think or use?

I have seen a similar design but with a concave, curved leading edge. Does this offer any advantages? Obviously you want this sail to be quite stiff so it does not get any shape to it and create forward drive so does the concave shape reduce the risk of generating drive?

Cheers and cold beers

Keiron

[deltaten]

any smallish bit of old sail, sheeted flat to anyyhing astern should work. just think like a wind vane tail. I plan on using a bit of old chppped up main, mebbe three by three, grommeted at corners and clipped to backstay , boom and halyard.

hth,
paul

[nigel1]

I use one, makes a big difference in windy anchorages (plenty of those around here).

I have mine hanked on to the port side back stay (twin back stay set up), with the tack line secured to the back stay chain plate. Use the main halyard to hoist the sail, and have a sheet secured to the clew, lead to a turning block stbd side midships and back to the stbd primary winch.
In this case it sets diagonally across the deck which helps keep the wind on one side only.

For dimensions I used info from this page

Anchor Riding Sail Kit (12.5 Sq Feet)

and just made it a bit bigger and kept the proportions the same.

Anchored in a bay subjected to sustained wind speed of 50 kts for a day, and the boat was very steady.

There is also a twin Vee shaped riding sail, looks a bit complicated to me, but some say it works very well

P2240008_zps2ffce93f.jpg Photo by Piotaskipper | Photobucket

[svHyLyte]

Take a look at the Fin Delta Riding Sail by Banner Bay. Great system!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Take a look at the Fin Delta Riding Sail by Banner Bay. Great system!

Good product, we bought one and it works very well, we also find it easy to rig up.

[zeehag]

i have seen folks use pram sails as a steadyng or anchoring ssil.. i also watched em remove it, as sun and wind here will destroy all in it.
i found a bridle snubbing device works just fine, and when tide and wind are in opposition, a streadying or anchoring sail will NOT keep ye into wind unlessthat wind is stronger than current.
is all good fun.. figger itout when you get out here.

[kas_1611]

Many thanks for the links, definitely interesting especially if I can find someone who does similar on the other side of the pond. Customs and Import Taxes would add another 50% onto the cost of the kit or sail. However it has given some food for thought.

Zeehag; I've tried a bridle and it made no iota of a difference. Maybe I had it set up wrong but as we don't have any tide to worry about here in the Adriatic it's not something that anyone (other than cats) seems to use. Out of curiosity how do you rig your bridle snubber up?

Cheers and cold beers

Keiron

[zeehag]

"Zeehag; I've tried a bridle and it made no iota of a difference. Maybe I had it set up wrong but as we don't have any tide to worry about here in the Adriatic it's not something that anyone (other than cats) seems to use. Out of curiosity how do you rig your bridle snubber up?"

i use a line and mid line i tie around the chain with a hitch, placing both ends of line thru hawse each side of bow. line is usually reusable, and i can sleep fine without killing my sprit, off which my anchors roll.
when tide is more rapid than breezes, i lay across wind. is fact of life.
once you are out a bit, then you will figger out how your boat is affected by these changing currents and breezes. \
i used my mizzen only one time as a steadying or anchor sail-- didnt really do any good against the tidal shift without wind.
there are some things boats do that we cannot prevent.
life gets easier when ye learn to deal with the quirks of your boat under all conditions.

[wsmurdoch]

On another forum I posted some measured data for the swinging of the boat and the force on the anchor with and without a riding sail hoisted .

Riding Sail - SailNet Community

[kas_1611]

Looking into all this a little further I have realised that in order to rig up any kind of riding sail I'm going to have to kick the boom out to one side or t'other in order to access the topping lift to act as a halyard for said sail.

So one has to ask is it absolutely necessary to hank a riding sail onto one's split backstay or could it be just as effectively rigged up from the back of the boom and along the boom if the boom is kicked out to windward?

This would save having to calculate how high up the backstay it would have to go to prevent any lines chafing on the bimini as they lead down to my midships cleats and having to rig up a line down the backstay to provide a downward pull. Yes I agree if it runs along the boom it wouldn't be truly to one side or t'other but at a slight angle but the overall effect should be similar.

I have to admit I do like the idea of having a bright orange section on the sail to aid visibility at night or in bad weather so might have to look into that if I go down this road.

Cheers and cold beers

Keiron

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by nigel1

I have mine hanked on to the port side back stay (twin back stay set up), with the tack line secured to the back stay chain plate. Use the main halyard to hoist the sail, and have a sheet secured to the clew, lead to a turning block stbd side midships and back to the stbd primary winch.
In this case it sets diagonally across the deck which helps keep the wind on one side only.

Nigel, I have just realised you have your riding sail running across from port to starboard. Only taken me 3 or 4 reads to realise
In effect this is similar to me running it along my boom with the boom kicked out to one side, although possibly not to quite the same angle or extent, so it should give a similar result.

Keiron

[malbert73]

Are you on line or chain rode? Chain makes a huge difference in reducing this. My old full keeler sailed a lot more on line rode than my fin keeled Tartan on all chain.
Mike


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Are you on line or chain rode? Chain makes a huge difference in reducing this. My old full keeler sailed a lot more on line rode than my fin keeled Tartan on all chain.
Mike


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Mike,

For most anchoring we are on all chain but still wander around particle in brownian motion. I dread to think what she'd be like if we had the full 60m of chain and 45m of 16mm rope out!!

Keiron

[Dockhead]

Echoing Zeehag's comments, try a bridle. The key is to experiment with the length and how far down the chain you set it, and with different angles. You will usually be able to find a sweet spot where it will work for you, unless you've got wind against current, in which case almost nothing will help.

A riding sail should also help, but a bridle is all most people need, and it's a lot easier to set up.

[nigel1]

Just a thought, having never tried this, but I think a riding sail on the boom will be a lot less effective than a riding sail hanked on to a backstay.
The back stay gets the sail as far aft as possible.