We have propane heaters. Why no gasoline/petrol heaters?

[Chotu]

We have propane heaters, hot water heaters, stoves and ovens.

So why not gasoline heaters?

Truly, using a metal fuel line and proper ventilation of the compartment would make it safe. Why don’t we have gasoline fuel heaters that pressurize and inject a little spray of gasoline the same way the modern diesel heaters do?

With a fuel shutdown based on lack of flame like propane appliances do.

[ttex]

Like gasoline, propane is flammable, but has a much narrower range of flammability than gasoline and much higher ignition temperature 920- 1020 degrees vs. 80- 300 degrees for gasoline. Propane will only burn with a fuel-to-air ratio of between 2.2% and 9.6% and will rapidly dissipate beyond its flammability range in the open atmosphere-making ignition unlikely.

[ttex]

Im not smart I just googled it.

[rslifkin]

I've wondered the same. Espar does make small gasoline heaters for cars, so it's possible. I think they've been deemed not safe enough on a boat though.

The lack of them does annoy me a little, as I'd like to add real heat to my boat at some point, but the only fuel it carries is gas. So I'd probably end up putting a diesel heater in the forward bilge (isolated from all gas containing spaces) and having to carry a tank of diesel around.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ttex

Im not smart I just googled it.

Ha ha ha. You fooled me!

An ignition temperature of 80 degrees seem a bit off in that copy/paste. I know it’s well above 80 degrees when I’m dealing with gasoline in jerrycans. It doesn’t magically ignite.

So I still maintain it’s not any worse than propane. A system could surely be designed.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I've wondered the same. Espar does make small gasoline heaters for cars, so it's possible. I think they've been deemed not safe enough on a boat though.

The lack of them does annoy me a little, as I'd like to add real heat to my boat at some point, but the only fuel it carries is gas. So I'd probably end up putting a diesel heater in the forward bilge (isolated from all gas containing spaces) and having to carry a tank of diesel around.

Same here.

I’ve seen the espar and webasto options but they seem to only be sold in Europe for some reason. They aren’t available in the USA and are also really small output.

I’m kind of hell bent on using the 150 gallons of gasoline I have already for main propulsion to do the heating. With the weight sensitivity I have on my Catamaran, I can’t be carrying around extra fuel tanks that are not being used.

[Chotu]

I did see this YouTube on getting a Chinese diesel heater to run on Petrol/Gasoline. The issue seems to be surrounding the gasoline igniting too quickly, rather than doing a slow burn like a diesel mist. Sort of exploding.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aVtlxWexNKg

[ttex]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Ha ha ha. You fooled me!

An ignition temperature of 80 degrees seem a bit off in that copy/paste. I know it’s well above 80 degrees when I’m dealing with gasoline in jerrycans. It doesn’t magically ignite.

So I still maintain it’s not any worse than propane. A system could surely be designed.

Are you telling me that propaneisbetterthangas.com would lie to me? On the internet of all places?

[Calif.Ted]

I think Ricky Nelson's plane crash may have created liability issues for manufacturers and diminished market demand for gas heaters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ricky_Nelson

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Chotu

We have propane heaters, hot water heaters, stoves and ovens.

So why not gasoline heaters?

Truly, using a metal fuel line and proper ventilation of the compartment would make it safe. Why don’t we have gasoline fuel heaters that pressurize and inject a little spray of gasoline the same way the modern diesel heaters do?

With a fuel shutdown based on lack of flame like propane appliances do.

Ignition temps are likely in Celsius vs Fahrenheit. Surprised the unit isn't identified though.

As someone who once had a gasoline heater in a camper van, I wouldn't even want to dock next to a boat with one, let alone be aboard. Anyone who's used a pressurized Coleman stove can relate to the old story of the novice skydiver who's primary and secondary chute fail to open. As he's falling he sees a man coming up at him as fast as he's falling down. As they pass, the skydiver yells out "Hey, do you know anything about parachutes?" To which the other person responds "No! Do you know anything about Coleman Stoves?"

Peter

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ttex

Are you telling me that propaneisbetterthangas.com would lie to me? On the internet of all places?

Ha ha ha. You’ve got me cracking up today.

[tkeithlu]

There may be confusion here stemming from the difference between "flash point" and ignition temperature. Flash point is the temperature at which a potential fuel gives off a flammable gas, while ignition temperature is the minimum needed for ignition given a flammable gas/oxygen combination. Gasoline is dangerous because it's flashpoint is -40 degrees (C or F, they're the same) while the FP of diesel is about 140 F. Gasoline becomes even more dangerous, and this is what matters here, because a very small spill fumes into a lot of flammable gas very quickly, and that vapor is denser than air.

The underlying concept that makes it easier to think about all this is that solids and liquids (with some exceptions - see "aluminum in explosives") do not burn. They are heated by surrounding fire until they produce flammable gas, which then burns.

[blueprint_33]

I guess we are talking air heaters but they are available for water as well.

All of these fuels with their dedicated heaters are technically available in Europe, Diesel, kero, petrol/mogas and Propane/LPG but they have restrictions on application.

Most common on boats today is diesel for its high mandatory flash-point of 65°C, the devices are modified models from campers/vans; there are some good value for money models made by Planar/now autotherm manufactured in Russia (they should know how to make heaters) at about half the price of the big brands (webasto, eberspächer). All these manufacturers make them for petrol too as modified versions from cars.

Some manufacturers offer their diesel models modified for Kero too but its is a small market, eg Wallas from Finland.

Propane/LPG heaters are made by Truma, I had one but they are not specified for boats anymore but only for campers/vans. The Truma we had was great, low noise and low power consumption but we moved to Diesel on our way to get rid of propane altogether on board.

Propane/LPG installation in Europe should be regularly tested for integrity by a certified installer and I was fed up with all the procedures (in principle a good thing to test installations but the way its been done is not delivering the safety level required).

[darrelweb]

There is a reason(s) about 100% of the commercial fisherman and most sailors use diesel fuel for their stoves heating and cooking. Even though a lot of these guys have a second fuel tank for #1 diesel fuel (higher heat content, btu's).

Gas used outside of a gas engine is inherently unsafe and you wonder why there is no gas heaters made.....its not safe....and l also would not dock next to a boat heating with gas.

Most folks store their outboard gas on deck. Think of the reasons why.....

My two cents worth.....OK...
Darrel

[blueprint_33]

Originally Posted by darrelweb

There is a reason(s) about 100% of the commercial fisherman and most sailors use diesel fuel for their stoves heating and cooking. Even though a lot of these guys have a second fuel tank for #1 diesel fuel (higher heat content, btu's).

Gas used outside of a gas engine is inherently unsafe and you wonder why there is no gas heaters made.....its not safe....and l also would not dock next to a boat heating with gas.

Most folks store their outboard gas on deck. Think of the reasons why.....

My two cents worth.....OK...
Darrel

Wouldn't disagree. We ran the gas heater for a good 10 years but.... we had a remote controlled solenoid on the cylinder, located in an externally vented storage (mandatory required here), copper piping plus gas sniffers beneath the heater and in the main bilge with automatic shut-off for the solenoid. And as a panicking owner I pressured tested the system very frequently...... ;-)