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Old 14-04-2019, 06:48   #1
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Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

I put up a post last summer, tried some things, but still having issues.

I have a jabsco manual pump toilet on my lagoon 380. It is the twist and lock handle version. Last summer I was having issues, when I would pump out the toilet, water would backflow in. Common cause was joker valve being bad, I replaced that. I also replaced the flapper valve. When water would backflow in, I would find the handle all the way up. However, if I used the twist and lock feature, I noticed no backflow.

I lived with it, and figured I would check things when the boat was on the hard.

Was at the boat yesterday. Took the tube off the vent connector on the holding tank so it was open to the air. While off, also put a snake down through it to the outside. All clear, no blockages.

Pumped out the toilet with the tube off, so clear to the vent. Not a lot of antifreeze in the system right now, but heard it going into the tank and out the hull.

Waiting a bit, heard gurgling noises, watched the pump handle rise and water refill the bowl. Not sure what to do next, except hope for some expert advice here. Oh, one other tip, when replacing the flapper valve at the bottom of the pump assembly, one of the 4 screws holding the pump to the toilet structure doesn't 100% tighten. Someone must have stripped the plastic threads.
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Old 14-04-2019, 07:00   #2
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

You need to talk to Jabsco tech support. Paul Campagna is their toilet guru... his direct line is 978-282-5246.


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Old 14-04-2019, 07:34   #3
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

The only thing that’s going to make the pump handle go up is back pressure. If it’s not the vent, it’s in the line between the toilet and tank, or something in the tank itself. I guess it’s also possible it’s on the water side of the pump that lifts the handle off the flapper allowing waste backflow?
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Old 14-04-2019, 09:57   #4
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Are you locking the handle in the down position after each use?
If you are twisting the handle to the locked position and it is still being lifted by the back pressure your toilet is broken.

Can you reroute the discharge hose so that it runs continuously down hill from toilet to tank?

Here is a link to the instructions for your toilet in case you donít have them.
https://www.xylem.com/siteassets/bra...sheet---en.pdf
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Old 14-04-2019, 10:05   #5
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

How high is the discharge loop?


Some backflow is normal (the tiny amount in the picture). This is why we flush a few extra strokes of clear water. Yes, the handle can be pushed up by the weight of the water in the loop, if it is high and you did not clear the hose with some air.
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Old 14-04-2019, 13:04   #6
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Are you locking the handle in the down position after each use?
If you are twisting the handle to the locked position and it is still being lifted by the back pressure your toilet is broken.

Can you reroute the discharge hose so that it runs continuously down hill from toilet to tank?

Here is a link to the instructions for your toilet in case you donít have them.
https://www.xylem.com/siteassets/bra...sheet---en.pdf
Handle doesn't lift when locked. Only when unlocked. This was not the case for the first 3 years. Didn't have to lock the handle.

I put a snake up from the thru hull from the outside up to the tank. I probably didn't go as far as the tank, but a few feet.

I did not snake from the hose that leads from the toilet to the tank. I am assuming this is not clogged as I can sent water from the toilet to the tank and out.

I will call jabsco.
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Old 14-04-2019, 13:15   #7
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
How high is the discharge loop?


Some backflow is normal (the tiny amount in the picture). This is why we flush a few extra strokes of clear water. Yes, the handle can be pushed up by the weight of the water in the loop, if it is high and you did not clear the hose with some air.
My system will do this if the water is not completely cleared over the vented loop. Iím sure I have an old joker valve allowing some back seepage. But once the toilet is flushed with clean water give an extra 5 pumps (on my unit) on Ďdryí setting to get all the liquid over the vented loop. Then no problem... on my unit.,

Good luck...

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Old 15-04-2019, 08:40   #8
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Ok. Spoke to Jabsco. On my boat, there is no vented loop. My toilet is about 4' lower than the top of the holding tank. This is cat, the toilet is against the outer hull, the discharge hose goes down under where your feet would be if you were sitting, the sink is across from that so if you open the under part the hose then is there then goes up to the holding tank which is across from the toilet and over to the right of the sink. I would think there is about 8' of hose from toilet exit to top of holding tank. Maybe 10'.

Anyway, what Jabsco said was that in boats like these, there is too much water pressure for the joker valve, and that I should put a non return valve in. PN 29295-1010.

However, what I still don't like is that I am hearing air burbling when pumping and water coming back in. I am going to snake the hose between toilet exit and tank entry and replace joker valve as well.
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Old 15-04-2019, 09:42   #9
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

I had this. Eventually worked out that the seating for the flapper valve was damaged which meant replacing the base. As the seat was discoloured and also needed replacing, it was cheaper to get a whole new unit. Took about 40 minutes to replace, not a big job.
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Old 15-04-2019, 10:17   #10
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Had this problem and had to change the joker valve every year. Someone told me the new safe antifreezes were ruining the joker valves. Now I fresh water flush, disconnect hoses and drain in the fall and never had a problem since in the spring.
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Old 28-04-2019, 13:36   #11
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

We also have a Jabsco with backflow problems. My mechanic is also of the opinion that the antifreeze is at least part of the problem. What I see when I take the unit apart is that the joker is somehow about 3/8" longer than the replacement. As an experiment, I kept one which I'd replaced (1) and allowed it to dry and put it alongside the one I was now replacing (2) and the new part (3). There is a definite 'height' difference, with the #1 and #3 about the same and #2 noticeably taller. When the valve grows, it apparently hits something the the angled flange, inducing a twist and opening a gap. Paul C says this can't happen but I'm getting real good at this task. Can't find the picture of the three but try this:Photo 1 is a recently removed part, the other one is new, right out of the box.
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Old 28-04-2019, 17:13   #12
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Do you leave antifreeze sitting in the bowl after you flush it through the system? If so, that's what's distorting your joker valve. The same thing will happen to it if vinegar is left sitting in the bowl.


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Old 28-04-2019, 17:49   #13
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Re: Water still backflowing into jabsco manua toilet, not blocked overflow vent

Generally, for lay-up, we flush it thru and leave a dry bowl. Vinegar is only used once or twice a season (May to early October). I've had the joker do the same thing mid-season, tho--kinda puzzling. I've asked the company if they have changed suppliers or material in recent years---no good answer. I have heard that Raritan makes a duckbill joker which will fit so that might be an option for us all. Here is the photo I referred to in my last post: Old and dried valve, recently removed one and a fresh part.
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