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09-02-2024, 11:16
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Marys Ga
Boat: Hans Christian 43T Telstar keel
Posts: 210
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
Surface ice on say the ICW? 3 of our through hulls are just above the at rest waterline.
Pete
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Pete,
great point. I know that the TruDesign stuff is temperature stable and is not impacted by extreme temperature shifts, meaning it does not make it more brittle. In fact, there is a video somewhere that shows them freezing a TruDesign fitting down to some crazy low temp and then they try to crack / shatter it. They were not able to.
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12-02-2024, 09:14
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Portland, ME
Boat: Catalina 355 35'
Posts: 45
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Re: TruDesign fittings
My Catalina 355 came with the series 93 Forespar thru hulls. Possible because the boat sat for a couple of seasons before I bought it, they were pretty hard to open and close. I was particularly worried about the black water dump out valve. I replaced that one with a 1 1/2" Groco thru hull but had I known about the Tru Design at the time I would have gone with them. The Groco is huge and barely fits. No question, a great piece of hardware. Subsequently I replaced the other 6 thru hulls with the Tru Design ones with collars. Very happy with the results. I used 4200 to seal the threads. No issues at all over three seasons.
Bill
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19-02-2024, 18:49
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,798
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEMLUX
Hello,
I am Brian Ferrell with GEMLUX-- the US and Caribbean distributor for TruDesign products. This thread came across my inbox and I wanted to provide some insight on some of the questions posted above and see how we can further assist.
GEMLUX is the US and Caribbean distributor for TruDesign products and we strongly believe that this is the future of all marine plumbing systems.
In regards to NPT and NPS thread systems -- It is strongly advised to NEVER mix thread types. NPS -> NPS and NPT -> NPT is the only CORRECT way to plumb. GEMLUX supplies fittings in both thread types because we also manufacture NPT thru hulls in Stainless Steel, as this has been the industry standard for a long time. However, ALL TruDesign products are NPS or BSP (British Standard Pipe, commonly used in the European markets) We have began to manufacture stainless steel, NPS threaded thru hulls to pair with all of the TruDesign offerings.
TruDesign has a very thorough set of data sheets for all of their products, which can be found here: https://www.trudesign.nz/marine/questions These sheets will explain thread sealing, installation, recommended sealants for different applications and much much more.
And last-- on our website we have a section dedicated to all TruDesign components to help keep your NPS and NPT separated ( https://gemlux.com/collections/trude...omposite-parts) If you have any doubt, give us a call.
We believe that the TruDesign product is the future of marine plumbing and you will notice some of the leading boat manufacturers in the industry have began making that transition.
We are here to help with any questions, concerns, comments you may have. If you have any questions at all in regards to the plumbing system in your boat, we're here to help. We have a very knowledgeable staff that can answer just about any question you have. Feel free to give us a call at 904-264-0173 or an email at sales@gemlux.com.
Best Regards,
Brian
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Brian,
Thanks for adding to the conversation. It's always appreciated when vendors add solid input to conversations (without getting too pushy).
Your link to pull out all the Trudesign products is very helpful. It does highlight my frustration.
Take item 8845. No where on the product page does it state that this is a Trudesign product. I now know it because of your link to pull up just Trudesign.
https://gemlux.com/collections/trude.../products/8845
Then, look at a very similar product. 2954. 1.5" female by 1.5 barb. I (like most here on CF) are aware of the difference between straight and tapered fittings, so I zeroed in on "FNPT" to know it is not NPS and not Trudesign. But read the product page, and see if you can tell it is not Trudesign and not compatible with any product made by Trudesign. It sure LOOKS like Trudesign!
https://gemlux.com/collections/livew.../products/2954
It is fairly easy for a savvy customer to deduce what is and is not Trudesign (just open the downloadable drawing). But it would be nice if in the title or the first few sentences, it said so. Calling incompatible products by the same name (GemLux) is an invitation to mistakes.
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22-04-2024, 15:34
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,798
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Well, I got my TruDesign stuff in, and most of it installed. Nice quality product. One noteable point, compared to Marelon, the valves are HUGE (see pic).
Turns out I have a real dilemma.
I have a hose that was factory installed on a 1" thru hull with an integral 1" barb (classic Perko). I bought a 1" thru hull and a 1" female NPS-1" barb 90, to make a cleaner installation. It turns out, the hose is 3/4" and the factory somehow stretched that over the 1" barb! I want to do better, but I'm getting frustrated.
- I can't find a 1" NPS female to ¾" barb
- I can't find a 1" NPS male to ¾" barb, which would work if I added a 1" valve as an "adapter."
- I can't find a 1" NPS male or female to any size NPT male or female (as a 90 or straight) that I could then add a barb to.
- Gemlux sells a 1" NPT to ¾" barb (THA-100-075-90) (note that while it is on a page full of TruDesign, this is NOT TruDesign) – that is listed0 in the "works with TruDesign" page and called a Thru Hull Adpater, but unless there is a typo, it won't work with TruDesign, nor will it work with any thru hull fitting (they are all NPS). https://gemlux.com/products/2946
- I did try (desperation!) a 1" nylon NPT elbow, but barely get 1 full turn – not enough to call it "good enough."
Anybody have any suggestions?
I could use the 1"x1" that I bought, add a 4" piece of 1" hose and 4 hose clamps, then a 1"x3/4" connector and more hose clamps, but that's a kludgy cobble job (still better than the factory trick of stretching ¾" hose over a 1" barb!).
I also may just play with the nylon elbow. I have a lathe that I could put that in, and 1" is large enough that getting a cutter inside is possible. I could conceivably re-tool the NPT to NPS! While probably a fun thing to try, it's not how I like to build my critical plumbing fittings.....
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14-12-2024, 05:39
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 4
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Hello, (rather than create a new thread), wondering if anyone's aware of any differences between this Trudesign stuff, vs commercial/Industrial nylon irrigation fittings (i.e. Philmac, Guyco), which are 1/2 the cost?
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14-12-2024, 06:00
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#36
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,858
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestAus
Hello, (rather than create a new thread), wondering if anyone's aware of any differences between this Trudesign stuff, vs commercial/Industrial nylon irrigation fittings (i.e. Philmac, Guyco), which are 1/2 the cost?
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Evidently*, Philmac® 3G fittings are made from advanced high-performance polypropylene - not Fibre Reinforced Nylon.
* ➥ https://ipexna.com/solutions/municip...sion-fittings/
Guyco Threaded Fittings are made from glass fibre reinforced Nylon 6 [similar to TrueDesign ?].
I don ‘t know what certifications they carry.
➥ https://alltechpneumatics.com.au/wp-...Brochure-1.pdf
TrueDesign Fibre Reinforced Nylon fittings are certified for below waterline use.
➥ https://trudesign-nz.s3.amazonaws.co...4e1a9c70a33255
➥ https://trudesign-nz.s3.amazonaws.co...89d5903456368d
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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14-12-2024, 08:28
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2023
Posts: 4
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
certified for below waterline use.
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I believe "specific application use" certification is something businesses apply/pay for so they can use it in their marketing BS, suck in unsuspecting end users willing to pay 2x extra vs equivalent alternatives, like a lot of products.
If commercial/industrial irrigation can handle HUGE high Bar pressure (vs our small bar requirements), being exposed to direct sunlight all day/s in crops, paddocks, parks/ovals, mining/drilling, etc, do they really need to certify their products to let customers know water is also ok on the outside of the fitting as well, especially in/under nice cool/shady boats. Be obvious wouldn't it?
I'm sure plenty have used it in their boats, especially in remote emergency. Never heard of any issues with it.
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14-12-2024, 09:53
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: 30' Ericson / 42' Golden Star / Yard full of trailer boats
Posts: 214
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Q: "do they really need to certify their products"
A: Only if you want to maintain your insurance coverage.
If something fails in the middle of a field you have a puddle.
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14-12-2024, 10:54
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,798
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Tru Design ( https://www.trudesign.nz/marine/products) makes marine style products. Thru-hull skin fittings ("mushroom" fittings). NPS (National Pipe Straight) fittings (straight threads, not tapered). Ball valves with straight threads. Pretty much NONE of this is remotely available in the industrial world, not because of a conspiracy or certification, but because the industrial world doesn't use it.
The NPS is the real important part. You fundamentally can't use a NPT skin fitting (which is why you can't buy one!), as the tapered thread means the diameter of the fitting depends on how thick your hull is (a thicker hull will lead to a smaller diameter on the inside of the boat). And, since your skin fitting is NPS, then your interior fitting has to be NPS to match. Now, why they don't make the other side of the valve NPT is a whole different story -- I wish they did!
I'm not terribly hung up on certification -- I've got factory original Marelon from 1998 above the water, and the only reason I know they are Marelon (and presumably "certified") is because I was walking around in the boatyard and realized the identical looking fitting on the next boat still had a visible label. Mine wore away years ago. So "your insurance company will care" is kind of a non-starter. If the product is "fit for purpose" with or without some un-provable certification, I'm fine with it. But it better be suitable for the job! I just bought a bag of stainless Tee nuts on Amazon, and I'm about 105% sure they aren't certified for marine use. LOL
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14-12-2024, 12:59
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#40
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,858
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestAus
I believe "specific application use" certification is something businesses apply/pay for so they can use it in their marketing BS, suck in unsuspecting end users willing to pay 2x extra vs equivalent alternatives, like a lot of products.
If commercial/industrial irrigation can handle HUGE high Bar pressure (vs our small bar requirements), being exposed to direct sunlight all day/s in crops, paddocks, parks/ovals, mining/drilling, etc, do they really need to certify their products to let customers know water is also ok on the outside of the fitting as well, especially in/under nice cool/shady boats. Be obvious wouldn't it?
I'm sure plenty have used it in their boats, especially in remote emergency. Never heard of any issues with it.
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The UL 1121 “Sea Valve” listing includes testing for thermal extremes, mechanical deformation, moisture absorption, vibration endurance, as well as chemical [including 10-Day Moist Ammonia-Air Stress Cracking Test], and UV resistance. It's rigorous to be sure and thus, any seacock that is ANSI/UL 1121 listed, and thereby also ABYC H-27 compliant, is virtually guaranteed to be robust, reliable and of the highest quality.
While other valves & fittings may be of high quality, and reliable, without the ANSI/UL/ABYC approval it's tough to be sure just what you are getting. Remember, "UL Listed" does not mean it is specifically rated for use as a seacock; the valve needs to say, "UL 1121 Sea-Valve."
Ideally, to avoid dissimilar metal [galvanic] corrosion issues, alloys used in direct contact with each other [seacock, thru-hull fitting, and pipe-to-hose adapter] should be of the same composition.
Glass-reinforced nylon represents a reliable alternative to bronze seacocks and thru-hull fittings.
Other plastics, such as PVC, non-reinforced nylon, acetyl, and polypropylene should not be used in seacock, or raw-water applications. All lack the necessary tensile strength, and flexural modulus of FRE Nylon.
ABYC H-27 specifies that a seacock shall be securely mounted, so that the assembly will withstand a 500 pound static force, applied for 30 seconds to the inboard end of the assembly, without the assembly failing to stop the ingress of water.
ISO 9093-2021 Seacocks and through-hull fittings
➥ https://www.trudesign.nz/marine/cert...-hull-fittings
Some of us learn, from the mistakes of others.
The rest of us, have to be the others.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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15-12-2024, 04:25
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane/Norway
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 351
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Re: TruDesign fittings
I recently replaced all of the through hulls/valves/fitting on my aluminium cat with trudesign. All threads were sealed with Fixtech 190 (equiv of 5200), except for one that will need to be changed later, for which I used Fixtech 15 (equiv of 4200). No leaks anywhere. Really happy with the product.
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15-12-2024, 06:03
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,798
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Gords discussion on listing prompted me to look at H-27. Curiously, H-27 requires no listing whatsoever. It does provide a long list of requirements it must meet, which presumably could be done by having the vendor test it and state on the label "compliant with ABYC H-27." In many other specs, ABYC shifts responsibility to UL, a practice I despise (why, oh why, does a marine CO detector cost twice what a Home Depot alarm and last half as long? -- and try and find a marine CO detector labeled on the product with the ABYC required UL listing language! -- and unlike ABYC, finding what UL even tests for is staggeringly expensive). But I think that an ABYC compliant thru hull could be made by a (admittedly, VERY skilled!) DIY builder in his well equipped shop. It has to "perform" -- it does NOT have to be "certified."
Yes, the "perform" includes very specific testing of the actual product -- one such test is 5,000 shock impacts, another tests thermal impacts, another UV damage (you do want it to survive in the real world, right?). But these tests, while rigorously described, can be done by anyone, anywhere, without the rigor of a UL testing lab.
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20-12-2024, 07:53
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#43
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Concord North Carolina
Boat: Lido 14, B-25, Cal 20, Moore 24 over the years
Posts: 15
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Re: TruDesign fittings
The Forespar valve pictured above is the 3/4" valve body, #904010. The hose barb was not produced by Forespar and is a 3/4" male to 1" hose. Builders commonly use this type of configuration for a galley sink drain for example back it the eighties. The thru-hull would have also be a 3/4". Any 1" valve body is going to be much larger in overall size. This type of instillation has caused owner and boat yard confusion in the aftermarket going back decades.
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20-12-2024, 13:49
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,798
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Fate
The Forespar valve pictured above is the 3/4" valve body, #904010. The hose barb was not produced by Forespar and is a 3/4" male to 1" hose. Builders commonly use this type of configuration for a galley sink drain for example back it the eighties. The thru-hull would have also be a 3/4". Any 1" valve body is going to be much larger in overall size. This type of instillation has caused owner and boat yard confusion in the aftermarket going back decades.
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I think you may have misread my post. It included two distinct parts. One part was trying to decide how to install a 3/4" hose on a 1" thru hull, as the parts do not exist. I don't recall how I solved it and it's raining so I'm not going to the boat to see! LOL.
The second part, with the picture, was talking about the valve body size. The old one, a Forespar, is indeed a 3/4" valve body. However, the nylon elbow is a 3/4NPT x 3/4 hose (not 1"). Not sure if that is a proper fit (is a Marelon valve 3/4 NPS x 3/4 NPT, which would work?). This feeds my deck washdown pump. The TruDesign on the right is also a 3/4" valve (NPS x NPS). I do seem to recall that the fitting I put on the inside was a 3/4NPS x 3/4 hose, an easy install. But, the key part of the picture is both valves are 3/4" thru hulls, and the size difference is remarkable.
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20-12-2024, 14:49
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: PNW
Boat: 35 Ft. cutter, custom
Posts: 2,952
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Re: TruDesign fittings
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry
But, the key part of the picture is both valves are 3/4" thru hulls, and the size difference is remarkable.
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On a similar note.
Having to make two new fuel manifolds for a power boat, I elected to use the Apollo bronze valves on the left rather than the Italian brass ones that the original system was plumbed with.
Although the Apollo valves were more expensive the differences between ease/smoothness of operation, thread precision, and ability to tighten to a "never leak" configuration without danger of body distortion made it a no brainer. Both valves are 3/8ths.
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