Trouble with Adler Barbour Cold Machine

[rnjpinz]

My Cold Machine is 5 years old now. Almost 2 years ago I had to replace my Danfoss Controller after my crossing to the South Pacific. Now in Thailand, 2 years later, my system goes down I got 3 flashes on my controller. I had a replacement Danfoss Controller so I replaced it and am back in action for the moment. I did find a small kink in my copper tubing for the coolant. The local talent here says, "we should cut the line and put in a coupling to fix this problem." I agree. Looks like it could be restricting the flow by 30 to 50% in the line. He is also saying that there is a dryer module that should be replaced as long as we are recharging the system. There is a language barrier here. Just checking to see what exactly this dryer module does and if should it be changed. Thanks in advance to all who reply.

Bob

[svlamorocha]

Look for "filter-drier" in file 2246.pdf in the rparts.com web site. The mispelling is literal. The guy is technically right but many techs will not be as picky. Life of the system may suffer but by that time the customer is far away.

[a64pilot]

If your opening the loop on an older system, it is smart and good insurance to replace the filter / dryer and to not do so in the attempt to save money is foolish, in my opinion.
Its primary job is to absorb moisture, moisture will combine with the refrigerant and form acid that will over time destroy the system, there is a limit as to how much moisture a drier can absorb, then you open the system and possibly introduce more moisture than the old drier can absorb, and some time later your system is destroyed by acid, replace the drier and you won't be.
Being a boat just makes the moisture problem that much more likely.
My guess would be that this is not likely what is killing your controllers, I'd guess that is from heat, and a cheap computer fan will make heat a non issue, and draw very little power

[Typhoon]

What Pilot is said is right on the money .

The kink is probably not your problem. DO NOT OPEN THE SYSTEM . You will open yourself up to a world of trouble.

Take a look at that kink you are talking about , is it on the liquid line or the suction line? Is there a temperature drop across it , you should be able to feel if it is colder then the rest of the tubing . These small systems pump very small amounts of refrigerant around so a small kink may not cause enough of a restriction to worry about.

If this system is water cooled then it probably lacks compressor and module cooling from a fan that would be normally running on an air cooled condenser . This will cause these components to run hot. Thats is probably what is killing your modules . Get a fan and direct the air flow over the compressor and module . Heat kills electronics !

Regards John.

[wannacat]

If you take the drier out you will have to reweld in a new one with either silver solder or silos. The temperature to weld these with is very hi and you must weep nitrogen gas through the lines as you are welding or you will create contaminants and have acid in your system that will eat the windings out of the compressor. If he has "Easy Flo" or an equal low temp welding material, you may get away without the nitrogen, but your still taking a chance with contaminants.
Instead of replacing the drier, I would do a triple evacuation with a 2 stage vacuum pump if available and heat the drier at the same time with a blow drier to assist in removing the moisture. Then recharge the system. I have done this a number of times to different systems with good results.
As mentioned by others, if there's no temperature change across the supposed kink when running, then leave it alone.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by wannacat

If you take the drier out you will have to reweld in a new one with either silver solder or silos. The temperature to weld these with is very hi and you must weep nitrogen gas through the lines as you are welding or you will create contaminants and have acid in your system that will eat the windings out of the compressor. If he has "Easy Flo" or an equal low temp welding material, you may get away without the nitrogen, but your still taking a chance with contaminants.
Instead of replacing the drier, I would do a triple evacuation with a 2 stage vacuum pump if available and heat the drier at the same time with a blow drier to assist in removing the moisture. Then recharge the system. I have done this a number of times to different systems with good results.
As mentioned by others, if there's no temperature change across the supposed kink when running, then leave it alone.

See..........big kettle of worms , DON'T OPEN THE SYSTEM.

That kink has probably been there from day one, and as you say, the system has been running for years with out a problem, just get some air over the electronics and compressor. These small Danfoss compressors where never designed to be used with water cooling , they need air flow over the surface of the compressor and the control module fins to maintain reasonable operating temperatures . Exceeding these temperatures will shorten the life expectancy of the components.

Regards John.

[Richard Kollmann]

The dent of 30 to 50% in a line is not causing a three flash LED code. Because this is an Adler Barbour with a variable speed compressor and completed a major crossing I would concentrate on an electrical problem and do not make things worse by tampering with refrigerant or tubing. Smart nondestructive advice from John will prevent a major costly mistake.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

The dent of 30 to 50% in a line is not causing a three flash LED code. Because this is an Adler Barbour with a variable speed compressor and completed a major crossing I would concentrate on an electrical problem and do not make things worse by tampering with refrigerant or tubing. Smart nondestructive advice from John will prevent a major costly mistake.

Hi, Seems to be two issues the OP has, a kinked pipe and repeated electronic unit failure.
Agree with others regards the kinked pipe.. if it's working ok then leave it alone but if you need to have it repaired, use a flared filter dryer like a 032 and avoid welding. Also avoid *spun copper so called filter dryers. *These should be called strainer dryers because they usually have no fibre filter pads internally just strainers and descant beads that rattle around and create more trouble than they're worth!. After any opening of these micro systems at least evacuate as previously described here, and if practical also replace the filter. The filter should be located just prior to the capillary or TEV entry.
Filter dryer flared..png


Regards the electronic unit failure. Apart from poor power supplies, failure of the compressor manufacturer's electronic motor driver is a most common problem and darned expensive. At Ozefridge we have over many years, logged outcomes from the thousands of systems we have in service and along with research by our electronics guru, have found some interesting factors. Among these findings we noted that for some reason a system installed on a yacht, similar to hundreds of others, will have repeated electric unit failures while others similarly set up go for years / decades trouble free. In a few cases there was the reported simultaneous failure of the fan or sudden radio interference noted when the fan run.
We analysed many of the failed items and concluded that there was two issues that were apparent. (Although other causes like overheating can be a cause if there is no high temp cut off)
We believe that the main 'killers' of these electronic units are high voltage spikes (Transient voltages) coming from other areas on the boat, and in a few cases corruption from faulty condenser fans powered from the electronic unit.
A simple protection is to fit a 'zorb' or voltage clamping diode with a clamp voltage of say 35VDC. This $1 item is simply fitted across the power input positive and negative. If a spike of greater voltage occurs, the diode will clamp it (kill it!) before it damages your electronics.
In this picture the Zorb is being fitted to the 12VDC terminals on this production line. (Can be fitted here or anywhere on the DC supply line)
Regards condenser fans: We never draw power for the fan(s) from the electronic unit. Have the electronic unit drive a relay and let the relay switch fans on with 12VDC power direct. This way a faulty fan can not harm the electronic unit.
I hope this helps to prevent the waste of otherwise good equipment.

Cheers, OzePete www.ozefridge.com.au

Fitting Zorbs.jpg

[rnjpinz]

Great answers from all. My fear is not about spending the money, but, opening the system up, as you have indicated, and causing other problems. My biggest fear and the reason for this post. As far as heat and electronics. It is a hot bed here. Temps are brutal in a marina. 95 every day.

The unit is running this morning. It is shutting off but seems to run more often. I could be mistaken as I am now focusing on it. Getting ready to cross the Indian Ocean to S. Africa and I am getting pretty anal about all systems aboard. I don't want problems while underway. Its a long trip without ice.

Bob

[CGirvan]

Originally Posted by wannacat

I would do a triple evacuation with a 2 stage vacuum pump.

Could you explain what you mean by a triple evacuation.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by CGirvan

Could you explain what you mean by a triple evacuation.

Here you go .

I do this often. Works great .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mGtIUyBkWo

Regards John.

[CGirvan]

Thanks John.

So would this be superior to just pulling a vacuum for several hours and letting the moisture boil off?
Is there a source for Nitrogen in small quantities suitable for doing a triple evac, I wouldn't want to have to buy a huge tank of the stuff.

[rnjpinz]

Well I did have them open the unit and this was the procedure they used.
1. They removed the coolant lines from the compressor and them took about 30 minutes getting the coolant out of the line by pushing on the valve on one end and then putting his finger over the open end till pressure built up and then removing his finger. Each time he did this you could hear a little gas escape. Then cut out the crimp in the pipe and welded a coupling in place. Once done, they filled the lines with nitrogen.
2. Left the nitrogen over night with the pressure gauge arrow with with a piece of take to make sure it didn't move. They also took pictures of the gauge.
3. They removed the compressor and took it back to their shop and where they removed the dryer and welded on a new one that is a bit larger then the original. The electronics (AB controller, Danfoss controller and fan) were removed and they cleaned the unit and painted it with a rust type paint. Looks like new. They taped the dryer or the base so no paint got on it. They pressure checked the unit at their shop.
4. Came back the next morning and checked the pressure level (was stable) and then hooked up a vacuum pump to remove the nitrogen. They let the vacuum pump run for about an hour. Then remounted the compressor unit and hooked up the lines.
5. Replaced the coolant. Left for about an hour and then returned and added a bit more. It looked like the gauge read about 10 lbs. Checked pressure and added a little more coolant.
6. Ran the compressor and checked the voltage. Checked the evaporator about 4 times.

Ran the unit till all night. All looks good. I have my fingers crossed.

There was a language barrier here. He spoke no English. I don't speak Thai. But have to admit they seemed very thorough. My cost for all of this was 5000 BHT. About $150 US. Cheap. I was surprised. Now only time will tell.

Bob

[Richard Kollmann]

Don’t believe it, triple evacuation was only done by shade tree mechanic and never been an expectable procedure in removing moisture from refrigerant and oil. Even a small amount of moisture below the quantity that could cause freezing blockage of capillary tube or other flow controllers over time will shorten the life of a refrigeration system.

Triple evacuation is especially ineffective on the new generation of compressors because Ester oil will refuse to release moisture using 28 to 30 inches of vacuum. Super dehydration is common practice beyond the standard gauge reading of a refrigerant vacuum pump. Standard vacuum pumps at 30 minutes running will not produce vacuum low enough to dehydrate moisture from ester oil. At 30 inches gauge vacuum there is still 12,000 to 5000 microns of pressure preventing moisture from boiling away. Super moisture dehydration of a system requires a low vacuum of less than 300 microns for 4 hours. If a micron meter is not available vacuum complete system at least 4 hours while maintaining all components in system at near 100 degree F.

[wannacat]

Wow, shade tree mechanic!!! Give me a break. One would think that you would have at least given advice as to the cutting of these small lines with a triangular file so as not to compress them with a tube cutter and add additional restriction and/or how much additional charge would be required for an 032 drier. You admit that 1 evacuation would do the job yet discredit 3 times that???? Ah yes, let's not forget the key to the whole process is to add heat to all the components to assist in the release of the supposed moisture in the system??? Was there a leak originally that introduced the moisture??? I don't recall that as an issue. Looks like his boys over there did a pretty thorough job or at least give er a good go and now it's up and running. Kudo's to them! Hopefully the OP makes it across the Indian Ocean with no refrig problems. Transient voltage or spikes is still a potential problem that maybe addressed by a suppressor as mentioned. That's why I like to see the refrig system have it's own dedicated battery bank isolated from everything else. Much easier to monitor amp usage also, but I don't know if he has the space for such.