Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2020, 06:55   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: New England
Boat: Bristol 31.1
Posts: 45
Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

I've been fretting over every little thing since we launched our "new" boat last week. I opened the inlet seacock to the head (a Raritan PH II) just a few days ago and now we notice that the "bowl" is filling with dirty water - presumably seawater. I have been shutting off the inlet seacock as part of my shutdown procedures as a precaution.
Yesterday, after sitting for 3 days unattended, the bowl was full again (maybe 3/4 full). I pumped it out and I checked and found the Y valve set to "head to outlet" so I moved it to "head to tank" thinking maybe its refilling via the outlet. I also shut off the inlet, but when I last checked, the bowl was maybe 1/4 full. The good news is, the outlets have vented loops well above the water line. The boat had sat on the hard for 3 years so I'm thinking the head probably needs a rebuild although it seems to flush and pump out ok. Could it be that I didn't properly tighten the seacock (tapered barrel bronze type) when I stripped and greased them? I might try tightening it down a bit to see if it might be letting seepage through even when closed, although it doesn't leak out anywhere I can see.

What else should I look for?
__________________

gansett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 07:21   #2
running down a dream

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewhere in the deep south
Boat: CD30 MKII cutter
Posts: 2,114
Images: 6
Send a message via Yahoo to gonesail
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

my groco head will fill up if I leave the wet/dry lever on wet flush. do you have your head valve switch on dry when it fills up?
__________________

__________________
some of the best times of my life were spent on a boat. it just took a long time to realize it

gonesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 07:27   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: New England
Boat: Bristol 31.1
Posts: 45
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
my groco head will fill up if I leave the wet/dry lever on wet flush. do you have your head valve switch on dry when it fills up?
Yes, I always set it to dry and pump it out.
gansett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 07:49   #4
Registered User
 
Bill O's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Bruce Bingham Christina 49
Posts: 1,504
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Are all your outlet hoses running "down hill" or are they level? If you cut off all other sources, assume this is where the water is coming from if your out hoses are level.
Would do the rebuild and that should fix it.
__________________
Bill O.
KB3YMH
https://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/
Bill O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 08:00   #5
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,259
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Both of you need to install a vented loop in your toilet intake. It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT MAX HEEL, which on most sailboats puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl (see attach photo below). It needs to be installed between the pump and the bowl, which requires replacing the short piece of hose the toilet mfr used with two that are long enough. Figure 1 under Installation Instructions on the right side of page 3 in this Jabsco manual toilet owners manual shows the the correct way to install it on ALL manual toilets installed below waterline so it doesn't matter what make/model your toilets are. Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock owners manual

(Photo and drawing show both intake and discharge vented loop locations...you ONLY need an intake vented loop.)



--Peggie
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	intake and discharge vented loops.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	42.0 KB
ID:	218905  
__________________
© 2020 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 08:25   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Hunnter Legend 37.5
Posts: 510
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Buy a new pump assembly and install it. that should give you all new inner workings and a new joker valve. If that's too much, just replace the joker valve.

Question.... Is your holding tank empty? You could dimy be dealing with reflux because of a bad joker valve. over time, the rubber on the joker valve doesn't allow a complete seal and even though you think you're pumping the bowl empty you can have reflux of effluent into the bowl.

Ben
bensolomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:04   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 19
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Have you checked your joker valve? If either that valve is worn out, or you have enough crystallization in the fitting which surrounds the joker valve, what has been flushed can flow back into the bowl because the joker valve doesn’t close fully. Been there; found that.
rfinklegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:07   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: New England
Boat: Bristol 31.1
Posts: 45
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

After reading your input and looking at various installations, It sounds like it could be either the inlet leaking through the seacock (no loop that I can see), or outlet loop draining back to the bowl. To diagnose this, I'm thinking of filling the bowl and adding some food coloring to the water, then pumping it dry. If it refills with colored water, then its the outlet loop draining back through a bad joker valve. If it's not, then I have an inlet problem. Either way, I need to add that vented loop on the inlet.
gansett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:27   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Currently cruising the eastern Caribbean
Boat: Lagoon 42, Minx
Posts: 185
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

If you do have vented loops on your toilets and the boat has sat for three years, the diaphragm could be blocked or cracked. Just unscrew the cap, pull the diaphragm and check.
singlespeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:39   #10
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,259
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bensolomon View Post
Buy a new pump assembly and install it. that should give you all new inner workings and a new joker valve. If that's too much, just replace the joker valve. Ben

You obviously haven't priced a new Raritan PHII pump assemby...it ain't a Jabsco! Before he does anything, we need to determine whether the source of the water in the bowl is backflow or from the toilet intake.



--Peggie
__________________
© 2020 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:48   #11
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,259
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Yep...you do. And f it hasn't been rebuilt in at least 5 years, it's definitely time to do that. If it was mfr'd BEFORE 6/92, you need kit PHIIRK....if it was mfr'd AFTER 6/92, you need kit PHIIRKC. It's important that you get the right one 'cuz some of the parts are not interchangeable.

Joker valve in a manual toilet should be replaced at least annually...here's why (excerpt from my book):

Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.
Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2020 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 09:53   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,259
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

You're assuming he has a bronze vented loop with an integral air valve. It's far more likely that his is PVC with a nipple on top into which an air valve should be threaded, but is often missing 'cuz air valves are replaceable parts sold separately to boat owners who don't have a clue that they exist.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2020 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 10:23   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: Watkins 29
Posts: 365
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

You probably need to change out the joker valve on the toilet pump! It's letting water seep back into the bowl!
dennismenace111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 10:39   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: New England
Boat: Bristol 31.1
Posts: 45
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
You're assuming he has a bronze vented loop with an integral air valve. It's far more likely that his is PVC with a nipple on top into which an air valve should be threaded, but is often missing 'cuz air valves are replaceable parts sold separately to boat owners who don't have a clue that they exist.


--Peggie
I had planned to check the anti siphon valve for proper operation. I do have the PVC type. So you're telling me that the duckbill valve I'd expect to find in there may not be present from the factory but just capped off??

I need to verify the age of the PHII (pre- or post-92) as well as the brand of anti siphon loops before I go ordering any parts. I would expect that everything is OE Bristol Yachts circa 1984, which is when the boat was built.
gansett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2020, 11:28   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
Boat: Island Packet, Packet Cat 35
Posts: 471
Re: Toilet filling up - It wasn't me!

At some point in the future you will need to clean that vented loop as well. They do clog with time.
__________________

Cpt Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
oil

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sea water filling toilet bowl... KFuller Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 18 22-02-2016 02:43
I Wasn't Born to Sail Dave the Canuck Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 12 03-02-2010 17:47
The Delivery that Wasn't 'Too Easy' Slrman The Sailor's Confessional 7 11-05-2009 19:31

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.