Thinking of Yanking the Holding Tank

[perchance]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Yank it and take a porta-potti as a backup.

A Porta-Potti is the work of the devil and an abomination to the lord. I for one wouldn't even consider it.

[sabray]

Bag the y valve. Pump to a tank and discharge or pump out when your not in harbor or near me. Your kidding. You discharge at the harbor
?

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by EzzyD

Rebel... you are based in San Diego.. and you claim you discharge on an outgoing tide? That is disgusting.... and illegal.... how can you say something like that? You are implicating yourself in an illegal act.. And you are a USCG licensed captain ?

What gives?

San Diego is a no discharge zone.... Not even 'treated' lectarsan sewage... But Raw Sewage....

Keep the holding tank, as you will be in other places and it will be most nasty and disrespectful to just dump raw sewage in a harbor...

You may not have a problem with stuff floating about... but... it is not nice for others.... I believe that it is even against the 'rules' to discharge into the harbor in Ensenada... I suspect that it is similar in other areas....

Yeah so we don't discharge in the bay here but we spend a lot of time in the local islands. If you want to get mad at someone for discharging sewage in the bay, go pick on someone else.

I normally don't feel the need to issue defensive disclaimers of myself. I'm looking for advice outside the US, not a commentary on my current world, which is fine.

[sabray]

Spoken like a real sailor that never had tp stick to them after a dive. Rid yourself of the y valve. Pump direct to tank and put pump on tank and use pump out places.simple no muss

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Yeah so we don't discharge in the bay here but we spend a lot of time in the local islands. If you want to get mad at someone for discharging sewage in the bay, go pick on someone else.

I normally don't feel the need to issue defensive disclaimers of myself. I'm looking for advice outside the US, not a commentary on my current world, which is fine.

People still anchor near you outside the US! we'll they might have anyway!

[Viking Sailor]

Rebel,

The editors of Latitude 38 commented on this subject in one of their online issues. As I remember it, they felt that if pumped through the head the waste was macerated enough to be absorbed into the environment within a few feet of the boat. They only had a problem with bucket dumpers.

I also recommend that you keep your current configuration. It may not be ideal, but at least it is a sample system that is legal and works. I wish mine was as simple.

Best of luck on your adventure,

Paul

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

With zero holding tank, that could mean a very full bowl till you get out to sea again.

That's a cheery little thought.

[roverhi]

If it's taking valuable space, get rid of it. There are very few places other than US and Canada and possibly Europe that literally give a sh*t. It does no harm other than to overly sensitive Gringos sensibilities.

Nothing I like more than sitting in the cockpit and have the wonderfully fulfilling smell of the holding tank wafting back to me. I grew up with outhouses, will not turn the boat into one. Before all the holier than thou types get their panties in a bunch, have always used an ElectroSan so no Baby Ruths emanating from my boat.

[EzzyD]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Yeah so we don't discharge in the bay here but we spend a lot of time in the local islands. If you want to get mad at someone for discharging sewage in the bay, go pick on someone else.

I normally don't feel the need to issue defensive disclaimers of myself. I'm looking for advice outside the US, not a commentary on my current world, which is fine.

hey rebel, relax... I do not want to get mad at anyone... Yet from your first post:

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Our holding tank now works sort of like a day tank. Fill it up during the day, dump it on the outgoing tide at night.

From your blog, the last islands you anchored at were Isthmus, Two Harbors, Catalina. I hope those local islands were not subjected to your dump at night with the tide philosophy...

I am happy your current world is fine.... just make sure it is not at the expense of others.... and it will surely not be fine when you get a fine from the coastguard or harbor master.

Just because the rest of the world is not the US does not mean that they are do not care about your sewage... Think of your neighbors....

Not trying to make you defensive... Just hoping you can see a different perspective.....

Best of luck in your adventures.....

[EzzyD]

Originally Posted by roverhi

If it's taking valuable space, get rid of it. There are very few places other than US and Canada and possibly Europe that literally give a sh*t. It does no harm other than to overly sensitive Gringos sensibilities.

if you are a US flagged vessel (over 400GT) , you are responsible to follow MARPOL regulations worldwide.

According to the RYA

There are several countries that do have prohibitions:

Europe
The Baltic
As with international conventions such as MARPOL, the Helsinki Convention (HELCOM Convention on the protection of the marine environment of the Baltic Sea Area) must be implemented in each of the participating countries through their national legislation. Therefore although HELCOM extends regulations on the discharge of sewage to all ships including pleasure craft, this is not yet law in all the HELCOM contracting parties: Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Russia and Sweden.
The latest information we have regarding national legislation is as follows:
Denmark
Boats built before 1 January 1980 do not have to have a holding tank and can discharge sewage when 2 nautical miles from the shore.
Boats built before 1 January 2000 but after 1 January 1980 which are either less than 10.5m LOA or have a maximum beam of less than 2.8m do not have to have a holding tank and can discharge sewage when 2 nautical miles from the shore.
Boats outside of the above exemptions, including all boats built after 1 January 2000 must have a holding tank that can be emptied through a deck fitting.
Finland
The discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited at a distance of less than 12 nautical miles from the nearest land i.e. within their territorial waters.
Information has been requested from the remaining HELCOM countries.
The Mediterranean
Spain
Spain has also introduced holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.
Greece
In Greece the regulations relating to discharges and pollution make a holding tank a practical necessity although we are not aware of them being a legal requirement as yet. Caution should also be exerted with grey water in Greece.
Turkey
Discharge of any kind may be considered illegal. A black water tank has therefore been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years. New rules (which were previously rumoured to be coming into force in 2010) appear to be coming into place in some areas of Turkey (such as the Mugla District) for 2012. If the rules are enforced to the full all black and grey water will need to be collected and pumped out ashore. A Blue Card will be used to monitor the amount of waste water deposited ashore to ensure holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea.
Elsewhere
Netherlands
The Netherlands is introducing regulations on the discharge of black water. Since January 2009 it has been prohibited to discharge black water (toilet waste) from all pleasure boats on all inland waterways, lakes, the Waddensea and territorial waters. Pleasure boats can be installed with holding tanks, dry or chemical toilets or boaters could choose simply not to use their toilets. Further information is available at: www.vuilwater.info/brochures and www.vuilwater.info/vertaling

France...


MARPOL has been signed by 152 countries as of August 31, 2012.

The relevant annex is annex IV Prevention of Pollution by Sewage from Ships (entered into force 27 September 2003)

Contains requirements to control pollution of the sea by sewage; the discharge of sewage into the sea is prohibited, except when the ship has in operation an approved sewage treatment plant or when the ship is discharging comminuted and disinfected sewage using an approved system at a distance of more than three nautical miles from the nearest land; sewage which is not comminuted or disinfected has to be discharged at a distance of more than 12 nautical miles from the nearest land.

In July 2011, IMO adopted the most recent amendments to MARPOL Annex IV which are expected to enter into force on 1 January 2013. The amendments introduce the Baltic Sea as a special area under Annex IV and add new discharge requirements for passenger ships while in a special area.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by roverhi

If it's taking valuable space, get rid of it. There are very few places other than US and Canada and possibly Europe that literally give a sh*t. It does no harm other than to overly sensitive Gringos sensibilities.

Nothing I like more than sitting in the cockpit and have the wonderfully fulfilling smell of the holding tank wafting back to me. I grew up with outhouses, will not turn the boat into one. Before all the holier than thou types get their panties in a bunch, have always used an ElectroSan so no Baby Ruths emanating from my boat.

That's kind of what I'm thinking.

I got some PM's from other sailors who are choosing to stay out of the fray, but one of the comments I got was "you'll find very few holding tanks in offshore vessels spending a lot of time in the Pacific."

I've got a macerating head, it all just comes out looking like a (gross) cloud.

Regarding my history with heads, we had a composting model (Nature's Head) for two years up until two months ago. Some people are helpful on here, some otherwise.

[onestepcsy37]

considering all the other crap (no pun intended) you've got going on in order to get out of here, i think i'd leave the head system alone. i actually want to change my system to what you have. just one question.

how in the heck is your holding tank three feet above the waterline?

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

considering all the other crap (no pun intended) you've got going on in order to get out of here, i think i'd leave the head system alone. i actually want to change my system to what you have. just one question.

how in the heck is your holding tank three feet above the waterline?

I had a Groco seacock in the head break after a month of use, so I'm probably going to haul out to replace it on the way out of the harbor (the yard said they'd fix it gratis), so I'm probably going to disconnect the plumbing anyway to handle that. That's why I'm considering dorking around with it again. It would be just as east to run the head toilet outlet to an antisiphon and out the boat as it would to plumb it back to the holding tank.

The tank is basically in a cabinet right under the deck. Tight fit, but it works.

[CeesH]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

Yeah so we don't discharge in the bay here but we spend a lot of time in the local islands. If you want to get mad at someone for discharging sewage in the bay, go pick on someone else.

I normally don't feel the need to issue defensive disclaimers of myself. I'm looking for advice outside the US, not a commentary on my current world, which is fine.

Rebel Heart I think that even your question is out of order, it presumes that if there is no legislation you are free to do what ever you want? This is the Brazilan way of thinking.

[Randyonr3]

Boy Rebel, you opened a can of crap........
we've opted to keep a 3 gallon tank with a gulper pump on the other side to dump.. we treat all the sewage only to keep the smell down with a squirt bottle and a few squirts after using the head.. The only reason we have the tank is to satisfy those in marinas we visit..
You kinda lose faith in those making all the nasty remarks when the local treatment plant accidentally hits the wrong valve and dumps hundreds of thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the bay. and all they can say is oops..