Stinky Head? Permeated Hoses? Solution!

[Sid at SailAway]

When we first bought our Lagoon 410 the starboard head was really smelly. And of course, that was the admirals head, with mine being on the port side. There was no discussion, I knew the hoses had to go. So while sitting in Key Largo, I replaced all the hoses on that side. For two years no problem, then slowly the smell started to return. I refused to believe that the new hoses had to be the cause of the smell. So I cleaned the bilge like a madman, got no result. Added enough chemicals to drive up the Dow Jones average on chemical companies. Cleaned the engine compartment. Sprayed hospital grade disinfectant all over everything in sight of the starboard head. Still listening to the admiral ask when the smell was going to go away. For TWO more years I chased the problem. Yeah, I'm hardheaded...

I should have paid attention to Sherlock Holmes when he, and I paraphrase, said, " when you eliminate the obvious then it must be the what remains that is the truth". I still wasn't convinced the hoses failed after two years. But how to know for sure? After all, the replacement hose I chose is over $12.50 a foot with my discount. To purchase over a hundred bucks worth of hose and not to mention tearing out the old hoses and then find out the problem was elsewhere was too much to bare. What to do? Well, here's what I did.

I took aluminum tape, the kind used for sheet metal duct work and wrapped the hoses in it. I figured no smell would go through the tape and if the head stopped stinking then, viola! It took about half a roll and a couple of hours but it was worth it. NO MORE SMELL! My wife is so happy and I no longer have to hear her nag, uh, I mean "comment" on the smell. So now I know for sure that the hose replacement would be a wise investment. The only caveat is now when I open the small door under the sink, it looks a little like the lunar module in there.

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

[peghall]

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.

[mottseng]

I love the tape idea a temp solution until you get around to replacing. Thanks !!

[Sid at SailAway]

Just a quick update and make things a little clearer. I didn't wrap every single hose. I identified the portion of the hoses that held black water at all times, because that's where the permeation occurs. On my Lagoon the holding tank has a "Y" at the bottom of the tank. On one side of the Y the hose drops down forming a trap before it heads straight up to the pumpout inlet. On the other side of the Y the hose goes more or less in a straight line for 4 feet before it rises up to connect to the Y valve. These two sections are the only areas that hold black water. Those are the only areas I taped.

The real test has been the last two weeks here on the Chesapeake. The temps have been pushing the upper 90's the whole time. With the tape, now I have no smell what so ever coming from the head. Since this has worked so well and the hoses are fairly new and still in good structural condition, I've decided not to replace any of the hoses. That's the best news from all this! The aluminum tape has proven itself very durable in its normal use in heating and AC ductwork, so I'm pretty confident I'll get years of service in this use also. If anything changes I will update the post with those changes. I said the best thing was not having to replace the hoses. I take that back. The best thing is now the wife is HAPPY!

[CSY Man]

I used series 141 "Tigerflex"
Seemed to hold up pretty good.
Also used the same hoses for all bilge pumps instead of the flimsy sh!t they sell for bilge pump hoses.

[Greggegner]

How many composting head owners complain about order...just saying...8 years and happy.


Greg S/V Sweet Dreams
Pearson P385 out of Racine Wisconsin probably two boxes if you want to get a few boxes that vision c

[UNCIVILIZED]

Neat "fix", though as to the time frame... Ouch! That's a lot of "corrective hits, er, hints" to absorb.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by peghall

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.

What is the good stuff and where to get it?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Greggegner

How many composting head owners complain about order...just saying...8 years and happy.


Greg S/V Sweet Dreams
Pearson P385 out of Racine Wisconsin probably two boxes if you want to get a few boxes that vision c

Yep, if the tape is working don't fix what ain't broke but when the time comes it will likely be cheaper and easier to just rip out the liquid sewage system that will only smell again in a couple of years and replace it with one that won't .

[thinwater]

The moral of the story is to subscribe to Practical Sailor Magazine. You would have known that 148 is not recommended (rapid permeation) and that Nashau aluminum duct tape does a very serviceable job for a few years. Think the time, aggravation, and money you could have saved.



The Fight Against Head Odors Continues - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

The Fight Against Head Odors Continues - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by peghall

One last thing, NEVER, EVER use the Shields 148 sanitation hose that they sell at West Marine. May as well use one of those soaker hoses they sell at Home Depot. Live and learn I did.

A lesson I also learned the hard way. I'd had Trident 148 (same hose) on one of my own boats for 7 years without a trace of odor...so I used it again on the old boat I was restoring. That was in June. In August I began to notice odor in the master cabin (the tank and VacuFlush equipment were under its berth). I spent a month chasing a leak until I too finally took Holmes' advice to heart...tested the hoses for permation...and sho' nuff, they FLUNKED the test. They'd permeated in less than 90 days! Also bringing home another British expression: "Penny wise and pound foolish!"

I replaced it with the good stuff because I'm not sure what kind of electrolysis and similar problems can result from interaction of other things that come in contact with metal tape...I've gotten conflicting advice about that. So I will tell you to keep a close eye out, but otherwise enjoy the absence of odor on your boat at last.

Hi Peg,

I'm a bit disconcerted to hear about the problems with the Trident 148 hose. I did use the Trident 102 which is supposed to be impermeable however if their quality has slipped I wonder if that will remain odor free or not. Any thoughts?


Thanks
Skip

[Cotemar]

This thread covers most of the Head Smells in real detail.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ipe-52035.html

[peghall]

I'm a bit disconcerted to hear about the problems with the Trident 148 hose.

Nothing new about that, no quality slippage. Shields and Trident #148 (identical hoses) is the cheapest sanitation hose on the market....single walled flex pvc that has always permeated in a heartbeat if any waste is allowed to stand in it. People--and especially boat builders use it because it IS cheap.

I did use the Trident 102 which is supposed to be impermeable however if their quality has slipped I wonder if that will remain odor free or not. Any thoughts?

Trident 101/102 (identical except for color...102 has a white "skin"), otoh, is a
double-walled rubber hose that has a biocide in the rubber formula. It's been on the market for about 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure...although I've picked up a few--VERY few in at least 20 years--anecdotal stories that it has. It has one major drawback: it's stiff as an ironing board! Making it not the best choice in installations that have a lot of bends tighter than about 10 degrees because those require breaking it to insert inline radius fittings and each one of those is a pair of fitting connections that has the potential to leak. But that's the only thing that would prevent me from recommending it.

In an installation that's not suitable for Trident 101/102, Raritan SaniFlex hose is the best choice...the stuff can make a tight u-turn! It's now been on the market for 7-8 years without a single reported odor--or any other--failure. It's PRICY, but cheaper and easier than buying cheap hose and having to replace it.

I don't recommend SeaLand OdorSafe. It has the same 5 year warranty as 101/102 and SaniFlex, but I've been on at least half dozen boats on which it's failed in less than year and have heard of dozens more.

[mottseng]

Sid at SailAway - You may be on to something. If the odour is from a permeated hose and a metal covering stops that then why not produce a hose that already has a metal jacket?

Sid at SailAway - you need to patent this idea

[a64pilot]

While changing hoses did help with my issue, I went with the Raritan Sani flex, but what really seemed to completely eliminate all odors was changing to fresh water flush, the actual head itself seems to harbor some odors if you flush with salt water.