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Old 24-01-2020, 14:23   #1
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Shower drain lower than sump

My boat has quite a large head/bathroom. When showering the whole area will get wet (there is no way to stop that) which is fine.

The original design was for the shower to drain into the bilge. There are also two drain-holes in the floor.

I've installed a sump bearing in mind the bilge is only about 12cm deep. I've added through hull type connectors to the holes in the floor and connected these to the sump. The shower basin drain is also connected to the sump.

Here's the catch. The shower drain is lower than the sump, enough so that the weight of the water will not force it into the sump.

The drain can't be raised, that would be pointless, and the sump can't be lowered.

The only method I can think of to sort this to install a second pump that sucks water out of the shower basin and into the sump. Just need to find a pump small enough and with 19mm inlet and outlet.

Anyhow, just posting here to check I'm not missing out on an easier more efficient method of dealing with this.
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Old 24-01-2020, 14:32   #2
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

The easy solution would be a setup like I have. No sump at all. Shower drain feeds to a diaphragm pump that pumps the water directly overboard. There's an on/off switch in the head, so you simply turn the pump on when you start your shower and turn it off at the end. No sump box to clean, takes up less space, has no gravity related issues, etc.
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Old 24-01-2020, 14:43   #3
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

Quote:
Originally Posted by rslifkin View Post
The easy solution would be a setup like I have. No sump at all. Shower drain feeds to a diaphragm pump that pumps the water directly overboard. There's an on/off switch in the head, so you simply turn the pump on when you start your shower and turn it off at the end. No sump box to clean, takes up less space, has no gravity related issues, etc.

I've used a Whale diaphragm pump in this exact configuration for years. I have a small inline filter that needs cleaning every few months. It's noisy when operating, but works fine. I keep a squeegee in the shower to wipe down walls and move water towards the small drain after showering.
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Old 24-01-2020, 14:48   #4
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

That's what I had and just removed. It's not a solution though as there are the multiple drains in the floor.

The whale pump can only deal with one if I'm relying on its suction to remove the water from the shower basin.
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Old 24-01-2020, 14:48   #5
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I've used a Whale diaphragm pump in this exact configuration for years. I have a small inline filter that needs cleaning every few months. It's noisy when operating, but works fine. I keep a squeegee in the shower to wipe down walls and move water towards the small drain after showering.
Yup, one of mine is a Whale, the other is an old Par diaphragm pump that's still ticking from 1986 (that's the less used one). The Par has a filter, the Whale doesn't (although I should probably add one). Both are noisy, but effective.
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Old 24-01-2020, 14:51   #6
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

This is the product for you: https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pr...ndlyID=Grey-IC

These pumps are super reliable, and can pass large objects that would clog others. I have this on our sink drain, and a switch on-off version for our shower drain. You could also use this one, which integrates a shower drain: https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/pr...lyID=Gulley-IC

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Old 26-01-2020, 09:42   #7
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
My boat has quite a large head/bathroom. When showering the whole area will get wet (there is no way to stop that) which is fine.

The original design was for the shower to drain into the bilge. There are also two drain-holes in the floor.

I've installed a sump bearing in mind the bilge is only about 12cm deep. I've added through hull type connectors to the holes in the floor and connected these to the sump. The shower basin drain is also connected to the sump.

Here's the catch. The shower drain is lower than the sump, enough so that the weight of the water will not force it into the sump.

The drain can't be raised, that would be pointless, and the sump can't be lowered.

The only method I can think of to sort this to install a second pump that sucks water out of the shower basin and into the sump. Just need to find a pump small enough and with 19mm inlet and outlet.

Anyhow, just posting here to check I'm not missing out on an easier more efficient method of dealing with this.
How about just connecting a water pump diaphragm type would be best, and leave it on continuously while showering.
You only need to plumb to the pump and tank or OVBRD.
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Old 26-01-2020, 09:45   #8
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
That's what I had and just removed. It's not a solution though as there are the multiple drains in the floor.

The whale pump can only deal with one if I'm relying on its suction to remove the water from the shower basin.
If that's so then you should install y valves possibly two to remedy. Or possibly a Collector for those drains.
The pump will pump faster than your drains will drain.
DO NOT USE A FILTER unless you can easily remove and clean it!
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Old 26-01-2020, 16:25   #9
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
My boat has quite a large head/bathroom. When showering the whole area will get wet (there is no way to stop that) which is fine.

The original design was for the shower to drain into the bilge. There are also two drain-holes in the floor.

I've installed a sump bearing in mind the bilge is only about 12cm deep. I've added through hull type connectors to the holes in the floor and connected these to the sump. The shower basin drain is also connected to the sump.

Here's the catch. The shower drain is lower than the sump, enough so that the weight of the water will not force it into the sump.

The drain can't be raised, that would be pointless, and the sump can't be lowered.

The only method I can think of to sort this to install a second pump that sucks water out of the shower basin and into the sump. Just need to find a pump small enough and with 19mm inlet and outlet.

Anyhow, just posting here to check I'm not missing out on an easier more efficient method of dealing with this.
Boats like Beneteau have been doing this for years. You just need a gulper pump (diaphragm), with a push button in the shower, and a timer circuit to make the pump run for several seconds each time you push the button. The grey water is then pumped straight over the side, or into a holding tank with gravity and deck-suction emptying.
Running grey water (or any water) into the bilge is not a great idea.
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Old 26-01-2020, 19:52   #10
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

I already have the Whale Gulper 220.

What i've done now is connect all the drain holes in the floor to drain into the sump box, then the Whale pumping water from the shower drain into the sump box. The sump box is has an automatic pump that pumps overboard.

The whale can easily overwhelm the sump box, but if left turned on whilst showering its not a problem.

I've also connect a y piece with two taps to the Whale to also allow me to drain anything that ever might collect in the bilge.

Now I just need to seal up all the other holes in the floor and around all the pipes. I also need a way create a water tight seal for the cut out hatch in the floor where the sump box lives. I would just sikaflex it up but I'm going to want occasional access.

It's all a bit convoluted but works. Things like this really annoy me, when manufacturers either lack the foresight, or willingness to get things right first time. I should add the previous owners to that too.

By the way, the area of the bilge I had to fit the sump box and all the pipe work is about the size of a lunch box.
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Old 26-01-2020, 20:38   #11
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
I already have the Whale Gulper 220.

What i've done now is connect all the drain holes in the floor to drain into the sump box, then the Whale pumping water from the shower drain into the sump box. The sump box is has an automatic pump that pumps overboard.

The whale can easily overwhelm the sump box, but if left turned on whilst showering its not a problem.

I've also connect a y piece with two taps to the Whale to also allow me to drain anything that ever might collect in the bilge.

Now I just need to seal up all the other holes in the floor and around all the pipes. I also need a way create a water tight seal for the cut out hatch in the floor where the sump box lives. I would just sikaflex it up but I'm going to want occasional access.

It's all a bit convoluted but works. Things like this really annoy me, when manufacturers either lack the foresight, or willingness to get things right first time. I should add the previous owners to that too.

By the way, the area of the bilge I had to fit the sump box and all the pipe work is about the size of a lunch box.

Hi, the hatch in the floor can easily be sealed by applying a thick bead of silicone,( yes I know silicone should never be used on a boat ) and applying a grease film (vaseline works well) to the lid where it will come into contact with the silicone when fitted and anywhere adhesion is not required, sit the lid onto the wet silicone making sure it is not fastened down and sitting a little proud of and even to the surrounding sole (or floor if you prefer to call it that) and allow to cure overnight. When cured fasten down securely flush to the surround, you now have a readily removable cover that has an inbuilt flexible seal.
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Old 01-02-2020, 20:24   #12
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Re: Shower drain lower than sump

If you want a serious pump for this job, I have a brand new Jabsco belt driven diaphragm pump listed in the classified ads right now
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