Sewage Hose or PVC Pipe ?

[islander28capt]

I'm sure we all can find a down side to every thing! Long story short, nice job mark and i'm glad it worked out well for you!

[foggysail]

I plumbed my 30' Hunter with PCV many years ago. Stuff is absolutely fantastic and far LESS EXPENSIVE than waste hose. Last year I did the same for both heads in my Silverton 40.

I still don't understand why so many are reluctant to go the PVC route. Good post IslanderCapt!

Foggy

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

ahhhh, but you can. A wire pipe saw will cut pvc in no time, then you just stuff one of these in......

Or... easier still.... close the Seacock....

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by foggysail

. . . I still don't understand why so many are reluctant to go the PVC route. Good post IslanderCapt!
Foggy

I am not saying - not to use PVC - as I use it myself very effectively. What I am saying is that there is a much larger arena of potential problems that arise when you chose to use PVC.
- - I get the feeling the daysailor and wannabe and others think cruising boats are just a "land house that floats." That is not the case and when you are 100 or 500 nm out to sea trying to find a wire saw which you don't have because it will shortly rust into nothing when you are "out there" is not viable.
- - As I and others have said is that you have to "plan ahead" for problems that may arise when you choose to use "non-standard" stuff on a cruising boat.
- - There is a long history of what works with minimal "consequences" in cruising boats and ABYC and the European counterpart take this into consideration when setting their standards for vessels going to sea.
- - When you choose to go "outside" these standards you really need to apply some thought to the potential complications. There is nobody out there to save your butt/boat but yourself and what you have on board is all that you have available to work with. It's a long swim back to shore.

[GordMay]

I wouldn’t expect a S/S wire saw to “rust into nothing”.
The BCB Commando Wire Saw consists of a 28" length of 8 strand braided stainless steel wire with a ring or strap attached to each end.

$5.95 ➥ BCB Commando Wire Saw

$8.25 ➥ BCB*Survival*USA*::*Tools...

[osirissail]

If you have lived on a cruising boat for a decade or so you will amazed at how Stainless Steel corrodes (rusts). Brown/red stains and trails from stainless fittings and things appear most everywhere.
- - But the big point is - who carries stainless steel wire saws? And along with that who has the time in a seaway to get access to the broken pipe and use the thing?
- - Rarely do problems manifest while anchored in a quiet lagoon. It is when out in confused 3 to 5 meter or higher short period breaking waves that extreme shocks and loads test every part of your vessel. When PVC or anything else fails then you can get into deep do-do very quickly.
- - I got caught by a norther in the Gulf Stream one night (bad forecast) and my 40,000 lbs of sailboat was literally falling off the top of 5 meter breakers into the troughs. It was enough to cause screwdrivers and other pointy tools to embed themselves into the overhead/tops of compartments and lockers. That is when having tested and properly installed components in the boat makes all the difference between life and death or at least some really stressful time.

[steve_hendry]

In the dim recesses of my memory, something is telling me that ABYC requires schedule 80 PVC pipe when used with a below the waterline thru-hull.

[capn_billl]

If you keep a can of glue and a few extra unions on board, I don't see how repairs will be difficult any more than fixing a broken pipe in the wall of a house. The chemical piping I use at work is a flexible form of PVC and gluable into standard pressure fittings. (not cheaper than the marine hoses though). I have often wondered why PVC piping is not used where it makes sense, I.E. protected from flexing. Thanks for trying it, let us know how it works long term.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by osirissail

If you have lived on a cruising boat for a decade or so you will amazed at how Stainless Steel corrodes (rusts). Brown/red stains and trails from stainless fittings and things appear most everywhere.
- - But the big point is - who carries stainless steel wire saws? And along with that who has the time in a seaway to get access to the broken pipe and use the thing?
- - Rarely do problems manifest while anchored in a quiet lagoon. It is when out in confused 3 to 5 meter or higher short period breaking waves that extreme shocks and loads test every part of your vessel. When PVC or anything else fails then you can get into deep do-do very quickly.
- - I got caught by a norther in the Gulf Stream one night (bad forecast) and my 40,000 lbs of sailboat was literally falling off the top of 5 meter breakers into the troughs. It was enough to cause screwdrivers and other pointy tools to embed themselves into the overhead/tops of compartments and lockers. That is when having tested and properly installed components in the boat makes all the difference between life and death or at least some really stressful time.

Good point, .....except,.... I've had hose clamps rust, .... and those expensive marine grade flex hoses get brittle and pop right off. THen when you cut off the cracked, stretched out part at the end, ....the hose is too short!!! Then you get to search lockers for a union and spare hose.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Good point, .....except,.... I've had hose clamps rust, .... and those expensive marine grade flex hoses get brittle and pop right off. THen when you cut off the cracked, stretched out part at the end, ....the hose is too short!!! Then you get to search lockers for a union and spare hose.

This is where routine maintenance comes in... one does not connect up and then forget it... everything on a boat needs checking at least 3 times a year... thats why flooding happens in engine compartments and around exhaust hoses, toilets etc.
Just because its S/S does not mean its impervious to corrosion.
Its all very well going round your deck and keeping everything up to par... you have to also go round below your cabin sole and seats/bunks etc...
You guys go ahead and play with your PVC rigid glued fix... PVC fails in house's.. on boats its even more susceptible to failure...
I wish you well and really hope it serves you well... but...
I'll stick with my flexible hose and spare clamps in the assorted sizes needed..
PS; when you install the flexi pipe why not cut it 12in over length... its flexible... so its not a problem...lol

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by osirissail

If you have lived on a cruising boat for a decade or so you will amazed at how Stainless Steel corrodes (rusts). Brown/red stains and trails from stainless fittings and things appear most everywhere.
- - But the big point is - who carries stainless steel wire saws? And along with that who has the time in a seaway to get access to the broken pipe and use the thing?
- - Rarely do problems manifest while anchored in a quiet lagoon. It is when out in confused 3 to 5 meter or higher short period breaking waves that extreme shocks and loads test every part of your vessel. When PVC or anything else fails then you can get into deep do-do very quickly.
- - I got caught by a norther in the Gulf Stream one night (bad forecast) and my 40,000 lbs of sailboat was literally falling off the top of 5 meter breakers into the troughs. It was enough to cause screwdrivers and other pointy tools to embed themselves into the overhead/tops of compartments and lockers. That is when having tested and properly installed components in the boat makes all the difference between life and death or at least some really stressful time.

But is failure of a sewer pipe really a life or death issue? It might get stinky with a crack in a pipe but most likely a little rescue tape and a replacement back in port would suffice. I see no danger in PVC's failure in this use even if it is true that it is more likely to fail (which is something I also haven't seen evidence of yet).

Jim

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by osirissail

If you have lived on a cruising boat for a decade or so you will amazed at how Stainless Steel corrodes (rusts). Brown/red stains and trails from stainless fittings and things appear most everywhere.
- - But the big point is - who carries stainless steel wire saws?
... I got caught by a norther in the Gulf Stream one night (bad forecast) and my 40,000 lbs of sailboat was literally falling off the top of 5 meter breakers into the troughs. It was enough to cause screwdrivers and other pointy tools to embed themselves into the overhead/tops of compartments and lockers. That is when having tested and properly installed components in the boat makes all the difference ...

I lived aboard and cruised for about a decade, and was able to keep all of my tools (including mild steel) from rusting beyond use.
Anyone with rigid plumbing should have a wire saw. I had one, still mostly shiny, after a couple of decades, aboard a couple of boats.
Having properly stowed tools and stores is also recommended practice. I don’t want anything shart or pointy, or weighing a pound or more, to be able to move more than an inch, or so.

FWIW: I don’t recommend rigid plastic sanitary pipe.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Good point, .....except,.... I've had hose clamps rust, ....

If so, you are using the wrong hose clamps. Hose clamps from Autozone or Home Depot might be "stainless", but the screw isn't. A good hoseclamp with a stainless screw is no more expensive than one from HD. There is a HUGE difference there...

FWIW, I just see too many problems with "stuff" sliding around and putting strain on PVC to use it. As well, we had a charter boat from the Moorings almost sink on us because a PVC fitting was used on a water intake for the fridge, and it broke as it was in the bottom of a lazarette.

[Cotemar]

It’s all about “Boat Smell”.
Boat manufacturers do not use high grade sewage hose.
This thread was started to address “Boat Smell”, by using a permanent PVC pipe solution.
A lot of cruisers just deal with having a progressively smelly boat then changing the sewage hose when it becomes almost unbearable to take the bad “Boat Smell”.
The common theme with this “Boat Smell” problem from reading other post is that it should have been replaced a few years ago or I can not sell by boat “WHY”
Over time most boat owners have no idea that their “Boat Smells”, because they are on it all the time or the miss’s has sprayed or has candles burning.
Of coarse your friends or guest will not tell you, but you had better know they talk about it together or to others.
It takes years, but over time all “Boats Smell” because of poor grade sewage hose.
Most of you can remember boat shopping and getting on a few boats with this “Boat Smell” problem. Those boats stay on the market for a really long time.
The only reason one would go with PVC piping verses sewage hose is to address the “boat smell problem” over a long time. Changing the sewage hose a few times will work also, but most do not.

As a side note: I left a 3 foot piece of the old sewage hose in the woods behind my house for over a year. It still smelled as bad as the day I removed it from the boat.

With first hand experience using PVC pipe over sewage hose over the long haul and as a DIY project, it was easier than I had envision when I started the project.

With this problem addressed I could move on to other concerns without worries.

Mark

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by bstreep

If so, you are using the wrong hose clamps. Hose clamps from Autozone or Home Depot might be "stainless", but the screw isn't. A good hoseclamp with a stainless screw is no more expensive than one from HD. There is a HUGE difference there...

FWIW, I just see too many problems with "stuff" sliding around and putting strain on PVC to use it. As well, we had a charter boat from the Moorings almost sink on us because a PVC fitting was used on a water intake for the fridge, and it broke as it was in the bottom of a lazarette.

That "PVC" intake fitting was more likely a nylon fitting, not PVC, and all white nylon through hulls should be checked or replaced on a 5 year cycle, IMHO. They tend to degrade from UV and the tails break off the mushroom heads with only a little pressure after about 10 years. If you have one 10+ years old I strongly suggest you grab the tail in your hand and give it a twist. You might be glad you did -- especially if it saves you from an on-water emergency.

As for rusty hose clamps -- I agree 100% your comments and others: All stainless hose clamps are not created equal... and beside that -- when did you ever see a hose clamp fail that didn't look like it was ready to fail? A little preventive scheduled maintenance/replacement goes a long way.