Seacocks and thru-hull checklist

[Cheechako]

First I would would remove the barrels in those seacocks (or a couple) and determine their condition. They may be better than what you can buy. They may not.
A bit of corrosion on the tapers is not a big deal. Mine had places that obviously didn't clean up when new when machined and were fine.
I like to use Lanolin on them when I recondition them. It does turn a bit harder in cold water but seals perfectly and doesn't go away like grease.
Yeah if you have soft backing blocks you should replace those. Also, just replace the mushrooms even if you keep the seacocks.
Hell would freeze over before I would put plastic seacocks in a WS.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ryban

I might also be old fashioned, but anything other than marine grade bronze for a seacock or thru-hull fitting makes me nervous. How do those plastic seacocks compare in longevity and ability to tolerate an impact?

I think I'll just replace them all while I have the opportunity. To their credit though, this boat was the very last "Westsail" built (it was actually built by P&M, hull #9), and the boat wasn't splashed until 1987. So the seacocks might have some more life in them, but why risk it.

The next question is whether I should fork over the money and go with the BV Groco valves over the FBV hardware...

The material on the glass filled plastic ones is real tough stuff. The plastic often fails though. Just go down to your marine store and try to operate new ones on the shelf... the problem is plastic does not hold shape very well and distorts. I have multiple plastic valves around the property here, nearly all are troublesome. I found one 2" valve a week ago that didnt turn off... turns out it never did since new! Defective.

[solana707]

Originally Posted by Ryban

I just purchased a Westsail 32 and am planning to haul out soon to re-paint, inspect the hull, and service the thru hulls and seacocks.

I think the internals and valves of all the seacocks need to be serviced, as a few are difficult to operate (or I'm afraid to put signifcant force on them to get them to operate). Additionally on 1 or 2 of the sea cocks, the wood backing block seems soft from water exposure, and so I think it's prudent to re-bed all of these.

Since the boat will only be out of the water for a week, what's a good checklist of parts to get in-hand as well as repairs, projects to expect to have to tackle in servicing these thru hulls and their seacocks?

replace with glass filled nylon, it's tough as nails. my glocks are made from this wonder-material and I expect my grandchildrens grandchildren to inherit then in good working order.
welcome to the future, it is now.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Hell would freeze over before I would put plastic seacocks in a WS.

Well put, you go to the head of the line.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Well put, you go to the head of the line.

. Well for those who doubt, there is this: (note the fire and strength testing ......)

https://youtu.be/HAbvFl-m-Ac

[Bowdrie]

Well, I watched the vid, some impressive stuff, no doubt about it, newer tech stuff is appealing, and for sure lighter weight,, every boat in the opening sequence was some go-fast day boat
But some things have an ability to "speak" to you, something that has some "soul", like a Martin guitar, or an 1873 Colt SAA,, maybe an Alden schooner.
Something that hasn't become a "victim" of technology.
A Westsail was mentioned, they have a certain mystique, they should have bronze seacocks.
A good bronze tapered-plug seacock can last a lifetime with reasonable care,, and they have some "soul", they look like they "belong" on a heavy cruiser.
Alas, the bronze seacock market is slim pickings/choices.
The Groco BF?, ball valve type is pretty much the standard, one that you see most times.
For the true tapered-plug type, Spartan Marine Bronze is in a class of it's own, and their are some European ones.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Well, I watched the vid, some impressive stuff, no doubt about it, newer tech stuff is appealing, and for sure lighter weight,, every boat in the opening sequence was some go-fast day boat
But some things have an ability to "speak" to you, something that has some "soul", like a Martin guitar, or an 1873 Colt SAA,, maybe an Alden schooner.
Something that hasn't become a "victim" of technology.
A Westsail was mentioned, they have a certain mystique, they should have bronze seacocks.
A good bronze tapered-plug seacock can last a lifetime with reasonable care,, and they have some "soul", they look like they "belong" on a heavy cruiser.
Alas, the bronze seacock market is slim pickings/choices.
The Groco BF?, ball valve type is pretty much the standard, one that you see most times.
For the true tapered-plug type, Spartan Marine Bronze is in a class of it's own, and their are some European ones.

Certainly cant argue with 'traditional' for 'traditional'. Depending on the boat, modern fittings can seem very much out of place, and detract from the 'soul' of a beautiful craft.

[solana707]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Well, I watched the vid, some impressive stuff, no doubt about it, newer tech stuff is appealing, and for sure lighter weight,, every boat in the opening sequence was some go-fast day boat
But some things have an ability to "speak" to you, something that has some "soul", like a Martin guitar, or an 1873 Colt SAA,, maybe an Alden schooner.
Something that hasn't become a "victim" of technology.
A Westsail was mentioned, they have a certain mystique, they should have bronze seacocks.
A good bronze tapered-plug seacock can last a lifetime with reasonable care,, and they have some "soul", they look like they "belong" on a heavy cruiser.
Alas, the bronze seacock market is slim pickings/choices.
The Groco BF?, ball valve type is pretty much the standard, one that you see most times.
For the true tapered-plug type, Spartan Marine Bronze is in a class of it's own, and their are some European ones.

I will say this now with as much conviction as possible.

I trust modern glass filled nylon fittings more than electrio-active bronze fittings. these modern plastics are a miracle product that has handily replaced the former fittings.
this applies to all long term applications. prove me wrong.

[Francois Meot]

"That said, those do not look so good, good time to replace them."

Totally wrong.

These old-style Groco seacocks are excellent. I sent mines (many sizes: 750, 1350, 1500), dating 1985, to Groco last year. They sanded them and tested 50PSI! They are back in my Endeavor 40.

My advice: don't change them, they'll last 30 more years. Have them checked by Groco and put them back.

[MegM]

I'm told that if you take the old Groco SV seacocks out, that you may be able to sell them for parts on the internet for about $100 each. Haven't tried it yet but in the middle of replacing mine which are 39 years old. Worried about their age, that they are obsolete, and watched a friend try to move the ball handle without loosening the T-handle first. Glad I caught him before damage was done! Replacing with Groco BVs, new Groco thru hulls, and Groco backing plates (removed my wood backing plates).

[Colonel Bob]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

Tru design has a reinforcing collar that works great. Very strong. Not expensive. Easy to use.

I second the installation of TruDesign. Just changed out engine and A/C raw water and both head seacocks on my Jeanneau 42DS. Smooth operation and no bonding! The design is awesome when used with the collar. I added 5/8" backing plates only because the thin Jeanneau hull might fail before the seacock did!

[sails4fun]

Forespar's Marelon Sea Cocks and Marelon Valves have been the top choice of US builders for years. Performance continues to stay strong and the US based company builds all the products in their shop. They stand behind the product and have many years of history. Improvements in design have brought newer - lower profile designs to the market. I have found that a regularly serviced valve will perform for years!

[Methersgate]

I seem to have rather a lot of two inch diameter hull openings.

Some have good seacocks on them; generally these are the oldest ones, from 1975. Some others, the more recent ones, not so much…

What does the panel recommend?

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by Ryban

I think he was referring to the TruDesign seacocks not having a flange nor thru-bolts.

Actually, the more I read about the TruDesign composite seacocks, the more I'm becoming a fan. It does seem like a lot of the advantages: no corrosion, no tri-flange thru-bolts needed, about 3-4x cheaper (compared to the BV series), seem to hold up at least as long as the bronze ones -- though I am still a fan of marine-grade bronze on a boat for almost everything.

One drawback right now is that it seems to be hard to find a US supplier with TruDesign seacock sin stock.

Just ran into this. Gemlux has the best selection in the USA I've found. Usually you can dig up a good coupon code too. Despite their website claiming to be out of stock of all Tru Design stuff, I successfully made a phone order just today. They told me they took them off the website because supplies are limited with Covid/Shipping issues, and they don't want internet sales wiping out their stock and to disappoint their walk in customers. In other words, give them a call, they might be able to help out.

[dcruz99801]

I just bought a 1979 Perry 47, Taiwan-built with 2 gate valves (2-1/2" and 3") for the cockpit and engine exhaust, but bronze taper-plug of unknown make for the 1-1/4" and 3/4" functions; almost all were frozen open(!). I am currently cleaning up and "lapping-in" my existing smaller valves -- I expect most will be fine -- and upgrading the big ones, but I have learned a lot since I started.


In searching I found a site called marinehowto.com that has excellent photo-rich essays on through-hulls, ball valves vs. seacocks, marelon vs bronze, etc.



One good compromise/fix is Groco's triangular flange adapters which allow the NPS through-hull to screw in while providing an NPT output for more common (and less costly) ball valves. The flanges can be through-bolted to the hull, or screwed into FRP backing plates glassed to the hull, if one has a modern thin-skinned boat.



Don't be afraid to collect as much info as you can before spending what can sometimes be big $$$ (ex: 3" bronze valve -- $500 to $1000). Marelon vs bronze is a deep dive and not all bronze is created equal, but don't believe that all current builders do everything to ABYS (which is insurance-driven as much as best-practice), and not everything is covered by ABYS, nor is modern always best. Bronze has been replaced by SS not because it is better, just cheaper; <my jury> is still out on Marelon, but the price looks good and specs are enough for most duty.



P.S. never forget you are trading your time and money now against how soon and how long you go cruising.