Rule 2000 not lifting

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Reducing the hose diameter will always, always, ALWAYS reduce the flow. You do not understand how pressure works.

Maybe, just maybe, all the time I spent studying fluid dynamics I completely missed the point. Maybe, just maybe, all those piping systems I designed for industrial plants were completely bogus. Maybe you are smarter than every chemical engineer out there, and none of them get how fluid flow, pumps and pipes work.

Want to bet????

Here's the thing, carry your "logic" to the extreme... use 1/4" hose.... really low "head weight" things should pump REALY fast!

"Head weight" by the way just is not a thing...

May I suggest "Lord It Depends" that you increase the fiber in your diet?

[Celestialsailor]

I spoke with Paul at Xylem who owns Rule bilge pumps about my Rule 2000 and explained the 15' run and 6'6" rise. He told me that I was asking a lot of the pump. He of course asked me to check the voltage first for clean power. Then I asked him if the 3700 could be run using the 1 1/8 hose from the 2000 and not the recommended 1 1/2" hose and if that would increase rise? He confirmed it would reduce flow as I suspected but would increase rise.

I will jump it direct to the battery to confirm a voltage issue and then get a 3700 pump.

[Celestialsailor]

I was at the boat today and checked the voltage with the batteries at 12.45 volts. There was 12.35 on the wires at the pump not actuated. Then I turned on the battery charger. The voltage at the battery was 14.4 volts. At the pump wires, not actuated was 13.5 volts. Then when I actuated the pump via float switch, the voltage was 12.2 volts even though the battery readout was still 14.4 volts.
To me, it showed resistance along the path somewhere. I began to investigate the wires and here is what I found,,,

[donradcliffe]

Take off the outlet hose and turn on the pump. If it is pumping, replace the hose and verify it lifts. If no to either, replace the pump.

[rslifkin]

That undersized, poorly connected mess will definitely do it. I bet with load on the pump from it moving water, the voltage probably drops even further. Some new, bigger wiring with good quality connections (crimped with heat shrink to seal is fine as long as they're crimped well) and I expect it'll work much better.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Take off the outlet hose and turn on the pump. If it is pumping, replace the hose and verify it lifts. If no to either, replace the pump.

Thanx Don...I should have stated the pump lifted a water column 5 ft. of the 6 foot high corrugated hose..

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That undersized, poorly connected mess will definitely do it. I bet with load on the pump from it moving water, the voltage probably drops even further. Some new, bigger wiring with good quality connections (crimped with heat shrink to seal is fine as long as they're crimped well) and I expect it'll work much better.

I didn't think of that about less voltage to the pump lifting a column of water. I'm going to rewire using 12ga. in case the rewire fails to resolve the issue. then I xcan swap out the 2000 for a 3700 and adapt the 1 1/8" hose to the 3700. That will allow it to pump even higher.

[TheOffice]

Remove the hose from the pump and run the pump to make sure the hose is not clogged. Probably need to replace the pump.

[Jammer]

Hello Celestialsailor


If you are getting 12 volts at the pump while the pump is operating, then even though you may have a wiring problem worth solving, the wiring is not the reason your pump won't work.


If as you state there is no actual flow occurring, then hose size is not the reason your pump won't work.


The most likely cause of trouble is blockage. I would first check the overboard discharge, as it is possible that it has been plugged by the activity of insects. That would explain why water comes partway up the hose then stops. If there is nothing obvious there, then unclip the pump from its strainer, let the water drain out of the pump and hose, and try to blow through the inlet on the bottom of the pump. If there's any resistance at all you have a blockage somewhere in the hose or the pump itself.


If that's all good, then check the impeller visually and see if it has hair or fishing line or something fouling it. You may be able to pick it out with tweezers or a needle nose pliers if that is the case.


I'm assuming you already checked the strainer base that the pump clips into.


If all that's good, then the pump's shot. They don't last forever, and aren't repairable.

[phorvati]

Use 10awg wire. Also how did you probe at the pump? Pierce the wire insulation jacket? If pump is old you have no clue what the wire condition is from your switch/splice to the actual motor. I always buy new rule pumps. And even the new pump, they never use appropriate wire size for the pump rating. Add the float switch to the path of electrons, it just further exacerbates the problem.

[Celestialsailor]

I de-sheathed the wire

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by phorvati

Use 10awg wire. Also how did you probe at the pump? Pierce the wire insulation jacket? If pump is old you have no clue what the wire condition is from your switch/splice to the actual motor. I always buy new rule pumps. And even the new pump, they never use appropriate wire size for the pump rating. Add the float switch to the path of electrons, it just further exacerbates the problem.

You don't need 10 Ga wire. The specs say 8.4 amps. 12 Ga is more than adequate.

IMO what you do need is a relay driving the pump. The float switch actuates the relay, the relay drives the pump. Why? you ask. Those float switches are not built to handle the motor starting loads (usually double run load) so the contacts pit and they fail far too quickly. I use automotive headlight relays. They are rated at 40 amps, are relatively cheap and available everywhere. Sockets are also readily available. I have all my pumps wired through these relays. If they fail it is fast and easy to replace. And because they are the same throughout the boat I only need to carry one type of spare part instead of a variety of different float/pressure switches.

I've been doing this for the last 20 years or so and have only had to replace one or two relays in that time.

Two pressure water pumps (fresh and deck wash) and two sump pumps (bilge and chain locker sump).

[Celestialsailor]

Do you happen to have the part numbers for those relays? Where did you mount yours?

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Do you happen to have the part numbers for those relays? Where did you mount yours?

Here you go:

https://www.allelectronics.com/item/...e-relay/1.html

https://www.allelectronics.com/item/...e-relay/1.html

This company has good prices prices but you can get these at your local auto parts store. They are made by the tens of millions. AFAIK every car made has one of these for their headlights.

My bilge pump is mounted on a 3 ft long King Starboard plank extending into the sump. The relay and connections are mounted high up on that plank. The pump leads and float switch have enough wire on them to reach the relay. Of course every boat is different.

BTW, my 37 year old boat is still on it's original Rule 1500. I have a spare aboard but so far haven't needed it.

[Celestialsailor]

Ok...So moving forward. Here is the new set up. A Rule 3700 with it's outlet reduced to facilitate the 1 1/8" bilge hose used on the Rule 2000. I will try it in a week or so.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Ok...So moving forward. Here is the new set up. A Rule 3700 with it's outlet reduced to facilitate the 1 1/8" bilge hose used on the Rule 2000. I will try it in a week or so.

Very nice. Is that big piece of sheet metal stainless?