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Old 07-10-2022, 12:13   #46
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

I installed two Rairatran electric still no problems 5 years on no maintenance at all saltwater flush just run bowl full of fresh water every week or when back in dock
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Old 07-10-2022, 12:16   #47
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by PEACEMAKER 455 View Post
I installed two Rairatran electric still no problems 5 years on no maintenance at all saltwater flush just run bowl full of fresh water every week or when back in dock
This is the way.



(Mandalorian reference anyone? )
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Old 07-10-2022, 15:24   #48
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Agree the three pointed joker is junk and the plain one is better.
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Old 07-10-2022, 19:39   #49
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

I have a 2007 343. Sails beautifully. Poor designs include overhead port light in salon, batteries and second water tank on port side and holding tank located high on starboard side.
Yes check vent but Jabsco pump doesn’t completely pump that high with age. I’ve used Raritan joker valves, suggested by knowledgeable owner to some extent.
Eventually replaced Jabsco with Raritan fresh head adding water line from head sink. Very easy refit. 3 years plus. Replaced joker valve this year. Pump is much stronger for the tank placement. Beneteau didn’t read Jabsco height requirements or failed to account for age.
PS. Raritan retro fit used same hole pattern.
Looking for additional house battery locations.
Any suggestions?
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Old 08-10-2022, 15:38   #50
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Rapanui has got it right. I change my joker valve every year or so. The last time I changed it was in June and I was surprised it lasted only a few days or so before it started leaking again. I decided it was time to inspect the entire pump. Sure enough the pump valve was not up to the job. I rebuilt the pump using the same joker valve. All good.
I use seawater and clean out the discharge elbow of scale each year.
The comment from Tetepare is a good one as well.
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Old 10-10-2022, 08:17   #51
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

There are two valves, the joker valve and a flapper valve at the base of the hand pump. Some points about both:

Joker Valve - Some Jabsco joker valves are longer than others. If you have a long valve and a short elbow, the two will interfere and the valve won't work correctly. Best is to get a longer elbow if you can fit it. It is not much longer.

Flapper Valve - This valve is at the base of the hand pump. I just (yesterday) replaced the flapper valve on my two heads. The valve is clamped between the hand pump and the base of the head. This flapper valve can shrink and distort over time so the flapper part does not close completely, allowing backflow into the toilet. That was the case in BOTH of my heads.

The clamping force is not much because the four screws that hold the pump base to the head base are only coarse thread bolts and they strip out if you tighten them too much. When I took my heads apart, I replaced the stock screws with 10-24 stainless steel machine threads. I put nuts embedded in epoxy on the underside of the head base. Hopefully this will provide enough clamping force to prevent the flapper valve from distorting. A lot of work but maybe I permanently solved the problem.
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Old 11-10-2022, 09:44   #52
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Here are a couple of follow up notes.

1) We are in freshwater
2) I've recently lubricated the pump with silicone grease
3) I recently replaced the flapper valve (perhaps bad install)
4) I can't get at the vent, but pumped it out with the deck fitting open and it still happened.
5) We have the old Jabsco pump that does not have the twist and lock feature.
6) The discharge hose rises about 3' from the toilet and dumps into the top of the tank.
7) I've purchased 3 joker valves from three different venders and they all have a slight gap.
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Old 11-10-2022, 09:49   #53
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorKris View Post
I have a 2007 343.
Eventually replaced Jabsco with Raritan fresh head adding water line from head sink. Very easy refit.
Looking for additional house battery locations.
Any suggestions?
The Raritan only comes with a 90 degree or straight discharge. The Jabsco has a 45 degree. How did you address that?

As for batteries, my start battery is directly in front of the engine. The house is under the boards in the aft berth next to the prop shaft.
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Old 12-10-2022, 02:49   #54
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

If you look carefully at the design of the Jabsco Manual Toilet the toilet waste from the bowl passes along the toilet base from the bowl to the pump assembly, exits the base via the flapper valve on the piston up stroke. On the piston down stroke, the flapper valve closes and the waste is pushed past the joker valve and discharges to sea or holding tank. The twist lock feature locks the pump piston down thus holding the flapper valve shut.

The problems arise from the fact that any debris, scale, imperfections and wear on the mating surfaces can cause either the joker or the flap valve to leak and that the ability of the twist lock to hold the flap valve shut relies on very fine tolerances. As the main preventer of back flow, you need to inspect the interface between the flap valve and the base to ensure that all is perfect, otherwise it will allow backflow. My guess is that while many toilet service kits and pump assemblies are fitted to the Jabsco manual toilets, very few toilet bases are replaced or even closely inspected and cleaned during toilet overhauls. Worth a look.
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Old 12-10-2022, 03:33   #55
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

If you look carefully at the design of the Jabsco Manual Toilet the toilet waste from the bowl passes along the toilet base from the bowl to the pump assembly, exits the base via the flapper valve on the piston up stroke. On the piston down stroke, the flapper valve closes and the waste is pushed past the joker valve and discharges to sea or holding tank. The twist lock feature locks the pump piston down thus holding the flapper valve shut.

The problems arise from the fact that any debris, scale, imperfections and wear on the mating surfaces can cause either the joker or the flap valve to leak and that the ability of the twist lock to hold the flap valve shut relies on very fine tolerances. As the main preventer of back flow, you need to inspect the interface between the flap valve and the base to ensure that all is perfect, otherwise it will allow backflow. My guess is that while many toilet service kits and pump assemblies are fitted to the Jabsco manual toilets, very few toilet bases are replaced or even closely inspected and cleaned during toilet overhauls. Worth a look.
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Old 24-10-2022, 09:01   #56
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Re: Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Further to my Post #51, the flapper valve is what keeps the wastewater from flowing back into the toilet bowl. Yes, the joker valve should stop most of the backflow but the flapper valve is the last line of defense. When I took BOTH of my Jabsco heads apart and examined the flapper valve, I found the same problem in both. Something in neoprene flapper had change dimensionally and the flapper part of the valve could not seal because it was resting on the edge of the neoprene that acts as a sealing gasket at the pump base. The pump plunger twist lock feature still held the flapper down but it leaked anyway because the valve was not resting on the valve seat and there was a gap allowing fluid to come back down the line. I don't know if the flapper neoprene changed dimensionally because of some chemical we put down the head or because the clamping force on the gasket was insufficient.
As I said in my previous post, I increased the clamping force by installing through bolts in the pump base and installed nuts in the base held in place with fiberglass resin. I'll see how that goes. Heads are working great for now.
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Old 02-01-2023, 14:42   #57
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Repeated Jabsco Joker Valve Failures

Interesting to read everyone’s ideas.

My question is about required back-pressure for the joker valve to work correctly…. min & max. I didn’t find the answer here, so maybe I’ll start a new thread.

But while here…. We have three Jabsco electric flush toilets, and I feel the manufacturing quality is terrible. I’m not convinced other manufacturers are much better, but I see some feel there are better products.

We’ve had intermittent back flow issues in the 18 months we’ve lived aboard. Each time I’ve suspected the joker valve, but from my experiences of disassembly and inspection, I don’t think the manufacturing quality has ever been the cause.

I believe my issues have been:

- incorrect assembly
- mineral build-up (eg Calcium)
- tiny waste particles
- age of joker valve

Assemble carefully, as others have said - don’t over-tighten. Follow instructions and good plumbing practices- or hire a qualified marine plumber.

Mineral build up can be removed with a brief treatment of sulphuric acid. It works wonders.

Waste particles will cause the joker value to fail, and this is easily prevented by flushing enough water through to ensure the standing pipe (to the tank) is cleared of all waste. Yes, you’ll fill your tank sooner…. Pick your poison. [emoji20]

Age… I’m sure these things wear out. My guess is that several years service should be possible.

Again… Sulphuric acid is your friend.

Don’t use sulphuric acid unless you know how to use it safely. There is a lady on this forum who specializes in plumbing… I forget her name. She’s an expert. Follow her advice on this - precisely.

We’ve basically had trouble-free joker valves for over a year. Sulphuric acid treatment is my go-to first trick - it solves the issue 90% of the time. The other common issue has been guests not flushing enough water to clear the standing pipe of all waste. Once they began do that, back-flow issue disappeared.
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