Raritan Electroscan - any users?

[Bean Counter]

Our display monitor played up as well, the LCD readout was all jumbled, though green and red lights worked ok. I guessed it was moisture from condensation in the bathroom. The unit was about a year old. I took a gamble and removed the back off and sprayed with electronics cleaner and then WD40, about 20 minutes later it came back on and now 3 years later still running fine. Just lucky I guess. We run Muriatic acid through the head once a year per the manual, and it certainly improves the electrical performance.

[doublebubble]

Thanks for the prompt replies, I did remove the status display panel and gave it a clean with elelctra-clean spray, I'll keep investigating, looking for a bad connection, thanks for the insight.

Regards Rod Lewis.

[doublebubble]

Update, as expected, faulty system status panel, new one purchased and all's back to normal.

Regards Rod Lewis

[macconews]

Do those of you that have Electro-scan have it installed "below" the water line? The installation manual states if "below" the water line, the "toilet discharge hose" must be "at or above the top" of the electro-scan treatment box. Do to this, running a vented loop between the Electro-scan and Toilet is needed...but needs only be higher than the "top" of the treatment box. I wish to do this and hope to only run the vented loop 1-2 feet above the "top" of the treatment box verses running the vented loop to or above the water line which is another 2-3 feet higher (4 feet total). This cuts down on the length of hose line, manual toilet pressure and number of pumps to get the waste to the Electro-scan. Does anyone on this forum wish to comment or offer suggestions on this? Much Appreciated!

[peghall]

The instructions refer to a TOILET that's below the waterline--which it is on most monohull sailboats. A vented loop in the toilet discharge line is needed to prevent waste in the ES from running back to the toilet. It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline at max heel, same as a vented loop between the toilet and a thru-hull would be. So on most sailboats that would put it the same 2-3' above the bowl as toilet intake and discharge loops need to be whether the toilet flushes into a treatment device or out a thru-hull.

Any manual marine toilet that's working anywhere close to factory spec can easily lift bowl contents that high, and you only need to pump enough times to move it over the top of the loop....gravity will get it the rest of the way. Pump only enough times in the dry mode to do that, then switch to wet for a couple of pumps to bring in enough water to rinse the discharge line and switch to dry to push that over the top of the loop.


You're welcome to contact me directly if you have more questions.


--peggie

[macconews]

Thank You Peggie,
Great Advice. Much Appreciated.

[pkirkll]

Background info:

I have a new (old) 80' converted fishing boat .

I plan to use this vessel as a mother ship in SE Alaska for an adventure vessel. Not charter per se. We plan to take out no more than 6 passengers at a time. One head is in place on the second level and I will add a head on the other 2 levels to bring it to a total of three heads and three showers. One on each level.
I love the idea of neutralizing the effluent before sending overboard even though it is OK at the marina i am docked at.

I will be out near the fishing and sightseeing places with the mother ship anchored for 5 days at a time.

During this time the folks will do there thing during the day while i prepare meals etc on the boat.

When they come back from their day trips of fishing, hunting , etc. i will feed them and they can clean up sit in the hot tub, tell fishing lies....


Questions are:

1. How many heads will ONE electro scan service.

1.a.Can i have a holding tank in front of it and dump three toilets into it.. and then let the electro scan process it as needed?

1.b.Would that require too much power?

2. Can grey water be run through it too? (as in a Sani access toilet/shower/sink combo?
______
3. Or is my answer to simply buy 3 ES units and plumb each head separately to the thru hull?
4. Would it be better to use the ES or the Purasan in this type application?

I would like to be able to advertise the boat as clean and green.... and i personally dont want to snorkel in poop either.

[myocean]

Originally Posted by pkirkll

I love the idea of neutralizing the effluent before sending overboard

Please note that the Electroscan is effectively just mixing the poo and adding some Chlorine, generated by the electrodes. So, it is far from completely neutralizing the effluent - just bacteria get killed.
However you still have the issue with overfertilization and all kinds of chemical contamination from cleaning- and washing agents, medication, ...

[pkirkll]

Originally Posted by myocean

Please note that the Electroscan is effectively just mixing the poo and adding some Chlorine, generated by the electrodes. So, it is far from completely neutralizing the effluent - just bacteria get killed.
However you still have the issue with overfertilization and all kinds of chemical contamination from cleaning- and washing agents, medication, ...

Well from what research i have done this isnt true. the effluent is treated with electricity that breaks the salt water into a mild solution, but instead of me trying to explain it i will copy and paste it.


The Lectra/San MC treats the waste in two distinct ways: 1. REDUCTION (maceration) of solid waste to indistinguishable particles,
and
2. OXIDATION of waste matter (destroys odors and bacteria) by hypochlorous acid.

The process starts with salt water in the treatment tank.
NaCl –> Na Cl- Sodium Chloride is a strong electrolyte so it
exists in water as sodium and chloride ions.
H2O –> H OH- Through hydrolysis, water breaks into hydrogen
ions and hydroxyl ions.
The electrode pack is energized during the treatment cycle and electricity passes through the conductive salt water. Hypochlorous acid, a powerful bactericide and oxidizing agent, is produced on the surface of the plates.
At the Anode:
2Cl- OH- H –> HCl HOCl 2e- Hydrochloric acid and hypochlorous acid are produced, liberating two electrons.
At the Cathode:
2e- 2 H 2Na 2OH- –> 2 NaOH H2 The two electrons, hydrogen ions, sodium ions and hydroxyl ions combine to produce sodium hydroxide and some hydrogen.
The Net Reaction is:
2Cl- 3OH- 3H 2Na –> HCl HOCl 2NaOH H2
With constant mixing from both motors, the products are mixed together for continued reactions.
NaOCl H2O –> NaOH HOCl Hypochlorous acid (HOCl) is formed when sodium hypochlorite reacts with water.
HOCl XXXX –> HCl XXXXOx Hypochlorous acid reacts with soil, dirt, and bacteria giving up its oxygen; leaving hydrochloric acid.
HCl NaOH –> H2O NaCl The hydrochloric acid reacts with the sodium hydroxide to form salt and water.

No external chemicals are added to the basic components of digested food, macerated paper, salt water and electricity. Waste is broken down through oxidation which is preferable to aerobic break-down because of the “friendlier” nature of oxidized waste by-products and the reduction of BOD. The hydrogen formed at the cathode bubbles off into the atmosphere. The water and salt by-products are eventually discharged into the receiving waters.


The Lectra/San MC is designed to dependably treat sewage on-board boats. The process is simple, safe and pleasant to accomplish.



It exceeds USCG Type I requirements and was granted Type I label certification. Certification followed extensive testing by a recognized laboratory in accordance with United States Coast Guard requirements.

The evaluation involved rigorous electrical, mechanical and sewage processing tests.

The Lectra San exceeded EPA requirements for effluent quality and eliminates coliform bacteria better than most municipal treatment plants. The independent lab test results required for certification documented coliform reduction in the sewage treatment process to less than 20 per 100 ml.


But i digress, I started my own thread because this is actually supposed to be a reply to the original poster, my apologies.

[peghall]

1. How many heads will ONE electro scan service.

Two, but because the flush can't be treated unless it gets TO the ES, both toilets must either be within the distance from from the ES specified in the Installation, operation and maintenance guide (aka "owners manual") ElectroScan owners manual or be one of the high end all china "thrones" that have a pump powerful enough to move it far enough. Those toilets include the Raritan Atlantes Freedom, the Raritan Marine Elegance and the Thetford Tecma.

1.a.Can i have a holding tank in front of it and dump three toilets into it.. and then let the electro scan process it as needed?

The Raritan "Hold 'n' Treat Controls could make that possible. Raritan HoldnTreat controls
1.b.Would that require too much power?

The ES can only accept a maximum of 1.5 gal at a time, so you should be able to estimate the amount of power needed by multiplying the number of treatment cycles x 1.5 gal each. However, because the ES can empty the tank while underway, power consumption may not be much of an issue.

2. Can grey water be run through it too? (as in a Sani access toilet/shower/sink combo?

No.
______
3. Or is my answer to simply buy 3 ES units and plumb each head separately to the hull.html" target="_blank">thru-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-hull?

Depending on the locations of the toilets, you can prob'ly get away with 2.


4. Would it be better to use the ES or the Purasan in this type application?

I prefer the PuraSan because it doesn't need salt...so it works equally well in salt, brackish and fresh water. It may also be a better choice for you in AK because the lower sodium content in very cold waters can negatively impact the ES ability to treat.


And btw, my answers to all of your questions except #4 also apply to the PuraSan.


--Peggie

[nijaba]

Hello,

After reading the thread, I am almost ready to order my own ES. I have a certainly dumb question. Would it make sense, for when we are in NDZs, to place a holding tank AFTER the ES, so that what we hold would not smell? Of course, I would do that with a Y valve so that in normal operations, everything would go directly out.

Thoughts?

[peghall]

It still would smell because although the reduces bacteria to <10/100 ml, only one of the li'l buggers has to survive to quickly multiply into a zillion. For the same reason, putting treated waste into the tank would not make it legal to dump the tank inside the "3 mile limit."


Btw...I recommend that you also consider the PuraSan...it doesn't need salt, so it works equally well in salt, brackish or fresh water. Also needs less maintenance than the ES. Raritan PuraSan Promo Sheet I'll be glad to answer any questions about it.

I just noticed that you've just joined our merry little band here...welcome aboard!


--Peggie

[contrail]

I would not call the discharge "indistinguishable". It may have been macerated, but it's still the distinctive brown color. Not hard to miss.

[peghall]

Actually, if it's working as it should, the chlorine "bleaches" the discharge to about the consistency and color of skim milk with a few grains of coffee in it--VERY light cafe au lai....unnoticeable to anyone who isn't swimming under the boat when the toilet is flushed. If the discharge is brown, the waste isn't being treated much if any.


--Peggie

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by pkirkll

Well from what research i have done this isnt true. the effluent is treated with electricity that breaks the salt water into a mild solution, but instead of me trying to explain it i will copy and paste it.

The Lectra/San MC treats the waste in two distinct ways: 1. REDUCTION (maceration) of solid waste to indistinguishable particles,
and
2. OXIDATION of waste matter (destroys odors and bacteria) by hypochlorous acid.

The process starts with salt water in the treatment tank.
NaCl –> Na Cl- Sodium Chloride is a strong electrolyte so it
exists in water as sodium and chloride ions.
H2O –> H OH- Through hydrolysis, water breaks into hydrogen
ions and hydroxyl ions.
The electrode pack is energized during the treatment cycle and electricity passes through the conductive salt water. Hypochlorous acid, a powerful bactericide and oxidizing agent, is produced on the surface of the plates.
At the Anode:
2Cl- OH- H –> HCl HOCl 2e- Hydrochloric acid and hypochlorous acid are produced, liberating two electrons.
At the Cathode:
2e- 2 H 2Na 2OH- –> 2 NaOH H2 The two electrons, hydrogen ions, sodium ions and hydroxyl ions combine to produce sodium hydroxide and some hydrogen.
The Net Reaction is:
2Cl- 3OH- 3H 2Na –> HCl HOCl 2NaOH H2
With constant mixing from both motors, the products are mixed together for continued reactions.
NaOCl H2O –> NaOH HOCl Hypochlorous acid (HOCl) is formed when sodium hypochlorite reacts with water.
HOCl XXXX –> HCl XXXXOx Hypochlorous acid reacts with soil, dirt, and bacteria giving up its oxygen; leaving hydrochloric acid.
HCl NaOH –> H2O NaCl The hydrochloric acid reacts with the sodium hydroxide to form salt and water.

No external chemicals are added to the basic components of digested food, macerated paper, salt water and electricity. Waste is broken down through oxidation which is preferable to aerobic break-down because of the “friendlier” nature of oxidized waste by-products and the reduction of BOD. The hydrogen formed at the cathode bubbles off into the atmosphere. The water and salt by-products are eventually discharged into the receiving waters.

The Lectra/San MC is designed to dependably treat sewage on-board boats. The process is simple, safe and pleasant to accomplish.

It exceeds USCG Type I requirements and was granted Type I label certification. Certification followed extensive testing by a recognized laboratory in accordance with United States Coast Guard requirements.

The evaluation involved rigorous electrical, mechanical and sewage processing tests.

The Lectra San exceeded EPA requirements for effluent quality and eliminates coliform bacteria better than most municipal treatment plants. The independent lab test results required for certification documented coliform reduction in the sewage treatment process to less than 20 per 100 ml.

But i digress, I started my own thread because this is actually supposed to be a reply to the original poster, my apologies.

It's pretty mild as thread drift goes.



I wish these devices would be accepted in Europe. What we have here is that in some areas (European Atlantic coasts) there are no restrictions on direct discharge, but in the Baltic and Med there are. Which means in those places SOME people collect and pump out (the Turks made a mighty effort to enforce this strictly, with blue cards and so forth, don't know whether that's still going on). But others just ignore and discharge directly anyway. Particularly non-weekend type cruising -- most people just discharge and don't worry about it, and there's no enforcement. The only place I know in Europe where people mostly really respect strict discharge rules is Finland, but there the state puts free pumpouts EVERYWHERE, even floating ones in anchorages.


Accepting devices like Electroscan would be a much better solution. The main drawback is cost, and this would be out of the reach of many sailors. But otherwise I think it's a great solution. It's pretty hard ranging to impossible for serious off grid cruisers to collect and pump out. Sweden a couple of years ago banned any discharge ANYWHERE in Swedish waters, so you can't even sail out 3 miles like formerly. There's no enforcement, but it's unpleasant to violate the rules in such law-abiding countries.


In Denmark, it doesn't seem like ANYONE pumps out. I have been in a Danish harbour since 1 October, and the one pumpout station has been broken the entire duration, and has probably been broken for years.



It's true that Electroscan doesn't eliminate all harmful elements from the sewage, but where do you think pumped out waste goes? It goes right into the sea after treatment with similar results as Electroscan. (In the best case. In many cases, it goes into the sea without treatment, and in concentrated form near shore, which is vastly worse then discharging a little at a time. ) The main thing is Electrosan gets rid of pathogens. Which are not really harmful once you're even a little offshore, but to be sure, when closer to shore, it's really nice to know that these are being eliminated from your discharges.


Someone should do some lobbying over here.