Quick question about head removal

[cyrano138]

Hey all, I want to remove the head on my Cape Dory 26. I understand that there is a seawater intake which is governed by a good sized Seacock. There is also another Seacock with a smaller hose (and the Sea cock itself is smaller). Maybe that's the intake. Really though, what I need to know, is can I remove all of this safely without hauling out? I did a little bit of searching and it seems to be fine but I wanted to double check. The larger of the two seacocks has a hose that goes up well above the water line and is connected by an elbow with a vent in it to another hose that goes back down. I was thinking of leaving thinking of leaving that hose attached to the Seacock running up to the vent. That way if the Seacock failed the hose would theoretically only fill up to the water line. If you guys need photos to better answer the question I can take some pictures tomorrow

[Striker]

Close the valves and remove the hoses, the thru hulls should be fine. If they are not you need to haul to ensure your thru hulls are operational.
I , personally , would pump a LOT of water and bleach water mix through all of the discharge hoses before doing anything.
Intake hose will be 3/4 or 1”, discharge hose will likely be 1 1/4.
I am not going to ask why you are removing a head, you must simply prefer a bucket I imagine.
Search this forum and I dare say you will have more information than you can likely absorb…….. and hundreds of differing opinions.
If you want three opinions, ask two sailors.

[leecea]

Sounds like you're not 100% sure where the hoses go - I'd want to be sure before I took action.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Striker

Close the valves and remove the hoses, the thru hulls should be fine. If they are not you need to haul to ensure your thru hulls are operational.
I , personally , would pump a LOT of water and bleach water mix through all of the discharge hoses before doing anything.
Intake hose will be 3/4 or 1”, discharge hose will likely be 1 1/4.
I am not going to ask why you are removing a head, you must simply prefer a bucket I imagine.
Search this forum and I dare say you will have more information than you can likely absorb…….. and hundreds of differing opinions.
If you want three opinions, ask two sailors.

Sounds like one of two things either lightening for racing or converting to dry ( composting ) head. And eventually eliminate the thru hulls all together at next haul out .

Flush the lines good and close the seacocks and remove the hoses and bowl.

[cyrano138]

Thanks guys. The seacocks are already closed and have been for some time. The holding tank is empty as far as I can tell so not too worried about a mess. I am just eliminating the head in order to simplify the boat itself. I can get rid of some holes in the hull and I don't mind using a bucket anyway.

[davil]

Originally Posted by cyrano138

Thanks guys. The seacocks are already closed and have been for some time. The holding tank is empty as far as I can tell so not too worried about a mess. I am just eliminating the head in order to simplify the boat itself. I can get rid of some holes in the hull and I don't mind using a bucket anyway.

=======================================
I did it in mine when in the boatyard.

you will miss the satisfaction I felt when I carried the @#!@# old head and dumped over the side, was magic, what a satisfying sound it was, when it hit the ground!
I then came down the ladder and carried the whole stinky mess to the dumpster.
Oh, joy!!!!

The large seacock is the discharge, if bronze you have the original Spartan, the small one is the intake, again if bronze Spartan.

Your idea to leave the whole length of the exhaust is a good idea, in case the seacock is leaking some, until you haul out and solve the issue.

I cut the hose enough to hide under the seat, blocked the hose after cleaning the tank, reason?, a new owner may like to install a head again.

The 3/4" small could be problematic if it does not close tight, I will close the valve first, disconnect the hose to check the valve is absolutely in the closed position, and even if it checks out ok, I will replace the hose may be 2 feet long and install a brand new in hose valve at end, but that is my paranoia.

If the seacocks have not being used in a while, they may be stuck with a buildup of salt, just leave them alone, no need to force a leak

good luck

[peghall]

On a 26' boat there's a better option than a bucket as a replacement for your toilet:
an MSD portapotty.

The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything including urine jugs off the boat to empty it.

A 5 gallon model is household height and holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $300--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space. A y-valve in the pumpout line and a manual diaphragm pump provides the option to dump the tank at sea...you already have the thru-hull.

If this idea appeals to you, check out the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD

--Peggie

[SVTatia]

I had the satisfaction of removing the head, tank, hoses and everything related from my boat, I did it in late winter last year, all frozen, no smell

I installed a desiccating (aka composting) head, and left the 2 seacocks.
I would recommend you plug them as I did, get bronze plugs with the proper thread and you don't need the hose as you described.

[cyrano138]

Originally Posted by davil

=======================================
I did it in mine when in the boatyard.

you will miss the satisfaction I felt when I carried the @#!@# old head and dumped over the side, was magic, what a satisfying sound it was, when it hit the ground!
I then came down the ladder and carried the whole stinky mess to the dumpster.
Oh, joy!!!!

The large seacock is the discharge, if bronze you have the original Spartan, the small one is the intake, again if bronze Spartan.

Your idea to leave the whole length of the exhaust is a good idea, in case the seacock is leaking some, until you haul out and solve the issue.

I cut the hose enough to hide under the seat, blocked the hose after cleaning the tank, reason?, a new owner may like to install a head again.

The 3/4" small could be problematic if it does not close tight, I will close the valve first, disconnect the hose to check the valve is absolutely in the closed position, and even if it checks out ok, I will replace the hose may be 2 feet long and install a brand new in hose valve at end, but that is my paranoia.

If the seacocks have not being used in a while, they may be stuck with a buildup of salt, just leave them alone, no need to force a leak

good luck

Thanks! The seacocks are the original spartans, and seem to be in very good shape with no leaks. I will post some photos tomorrow. I appreciate the paranoia. I really want to eliminate as many (if not all) through hulls as I can.

Originally Posted by peghall

On a 26' boat there's a better option than a bucket as a replacement for your toilet:
an MSD portapotty.

The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything including urine jugs off the boat to empty it.

A 5 gallon model is household height and holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from a manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose and vent line is about $300--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space. A y-valve in the pumpout line and a manual diaphragm pump provides the option to dump the tank at sea...you already have the thru-hull.

If this idea appeals to you, check out the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD

--Peggie

Thank you for the heads up (no pun intended)! One advantage of the bucket, if I can be a little detailed, is that I have the option of taking it outside in the middle of the night if the need should arise, rather than asking my wife to tolerate more than I think I have a right to.

Originally Posted by SVTatia

I had the satisfaction of removing the head, tank, hoses and everything related from my boat, I did it in late winter last year, all frozen, no smell

I installed a desiccating (aka composting) head, and left the 2 seacocks.
I would recommend you plug them as I did, get bronze plugs with the proper thread and you don't need the hose as you described.

Can you tell me where you got these? Can they be installed when the seacock is closed? Thank you!

[Striker]

I am constantly amazed that so many boat owners want to remove thru hulls. Do they scare you?
A properly installed , well maintained thru hull should cause no fear at all.
They have a purpose, like a shaft stuffing box. Do the same folks scared of thru hulls remove their engines?
When offshore, i am concerned about power boaters, especially sports fishermen. My thru hulls are in perfect order, operational and do not give me the slightest concern.
I , and this is just me speaking, would not remove my perfectly operational ,non smelling and well maintained head and holding tank system so I can keep human excrement aboard my boat for extended periods of time because of an unreasonable fear. But like I said, thats just me……..well and perhaps a LOT of others too.

[cyrano138]

Originally Posted by Striker

I am constantly amazed that so many boat owners want to remove thru hulls. Do they scare you? A properly installed , well maintained thru hull should cause no fear at all. They have a purpose, like a shaft stuffing box. Do the same folks scared of thru hulls remove their engines? When offshore, i am concerned about power boaters, especially sports fishermen. My thru hulls are in perfect order, operational and do not give me the slightest concern. I , and this is just me speaking, would not remove my perfectly operational ,non smelling and well maintained head and holding tank system so I can keep human excrement aboard my boat for extended periods of time because of an unreasonable fear. But like I said, thats just me……..well and perhaps a LOT of others too.

Simply put, they're a potential point of failure. And whether you have a head or not, you're keeping poop on your boat. Congrats on having everything sorted to your liking, though!

[fxykty]

When I removed our manual head, holding tank and macerating pump, I missed out on the satisfaction of dropping them over the side and the crash at the bottom. OTOH, I was able to sell the lot, including the calcified hoses, to a guy fitting out a home-built camper van. I got about half the cost of the composting head I replaced the wet head with.

We had three throughulls - one inlet, one manual head outlet and one holding tank outlet. On the next haulout I cut out the throughulls and glassed them closed. If some future owner wants to re-install a wet head they can put in new throughulls wherever they want.

Regarding your bucket, do you sail somewhere with no-discharge zones? If you do, a bucket won’t be compliant and if you ever get checked you could be fined. Get yourself a simple porta potty - it can also be moved out to the cockpit at night.

[cyrano138]

Originally Posted by fxykty

When I removed our manual head, holding tank and macerating pump, I missed out on the satisfaction of dropping them over the side and the crash at the bottom. OTOH, I was able to sell the lot, including the calcified hoses, to a guy fitting out a home-built camper van. I got about half the cost of the composting head I replaced the wet head with. We had three throughulls - one inlet, one manual head outlet and one holding tank outlet. On the next haulout I cut out the throughulls and glassed them closed. If some future owner wants to re-install a wet head they can put in new throughulls wherever they want. Regarding your bucket, do you sail somewhere with no-discharge zones? If you do, a bucket won’t be compliant and if you ever get checked you could be fined. Get yourself a simple porta potty - it can also be moved out to the cockpit at night.

That's a good point -- thank you

[Don C L]

You can probably reach under the hull to the thru-hulls from a dinghy without having to dive in. If so you can stuff in those foam plugs used for plugging leaks in an emergency. Then you are free to remove the seacocks and cap the thru-hulls. I capped mine as well; there is less in the way inside the boat that way. I have had no problems at all with them. I went with the porta-potty too since it holds five gallons and of course needs very little water to flush. So for me and the kids out for a week or two, it has been fine. It is only for #2, #1 goes over the side. For my wife and daughter I have a large square bucket with a cushioned rim for #1. On a small boat with low freeboard it all works well, no complaints from the crew. And no smell on the boat. It's not a bad way to go.

[peghall]

There are so many quoted posts in your question, I'm not sure who you're asking... If you're asking me who has MSD portapotty, Defender has it Dometic SaniPottie 975MSD Toilet with MSD Fittings - Gray | Defender Marine


The only plumbing is a vent line and pumpout line that would be connected to a deck pumpout fitting. So unless you want to add the ability to dump the tank at sea by inserting a y-valve and manual pump in the pumpout line, you won't ever use the thru-hull...the seacock would be closed when you install it and always be closed except when dumping the tank.


--Peggie