Propane Line: All Copper or Rubber?

[threeriversmari]

The tubes used to fill the tanks at the propane plant that I worked at were all rubber and are the same hoses from the installation about 15 years earlier, they were always moving due to popping off of the tanks when they were done filling. Not one of them ever broke, so I would go with rubber tubing also.

[GordMay]

Unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer, an LPG Alarm detector or remote sensor should be installed within about 6" of the floor, near the appliance.
Since propane is heavier than air (SG = 1.53), LPG gas tends to sink to the bottom of an enclosed compartment, when released from its liquid state.
However, gas that is diffused throughout the compartment (as when discharged from cooking appliances) is not readily dispelled by overhead ventilation, and this potentially explosive mixture can remain airborne for some time before sinking.

[ADMPRTR]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer, an LPG Alarm detector or remote sensor should be installed within about 6" of the floor, near the appliance.
Since propane is heavier than air (SG = 1.53), LPG gas tends to sink to the bottom of an enclosed compartment, when released from its liquid state.
However, gas that is diffused throughout the compartment (as when discharged from cooking appliances) is not readily dispelled by overhead ventilation, and this potentially explosive mixture can remain airborne for some time before sinking.

Thanks. I have yet to open the package but that is more or less what I thought.

Are you aware of any documentation that will help guide the installation of a new propane system?

Andrew

[GordMay]

Trident Marine have tutorials & diagrams on LPG Installations
➥ Trident Marine: LP Gas

As do Fireboy-Xintex
➥ Marine Propane System Products from Fireboy-Xintex

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Doodles

(...) I think ABYC standards requires one continuous line for each propane device with each originating in the sealed locker, i.e. no splices or connections between the locker and the stove or heater. (...)

?

Then you could only use rubber / other soft hose - otherwise the stove will not swing in gimbals ...

Must be another interpretation possible, I would guess.

b.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

?

Then you could only use rubber / other soft hose - otherwise the stove will not swing in gimbals ...

Must be another interpretation possible, I would guess.

b.

I think this is the answer:

A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance.

[osirissail]

Generally the sniffer location is rather a common sense thing. Locate is below the most probably source of a leak such as below the actual stove/oven unit.
- - However, the Trident sniffers are "very" sensitive when new and also many other sources of gas/fumes can trigger them. It can really get to be a royal pain to have to keep resetting them. Unfortunately the fix for that is to not have a sniffer or put it somewhere where "other" fumes will not affect it. I used a "maintenance bypass" switch to directly operate the solenoid until the sensor gained a little age and a little less sensitivity. This could be considered dangerous until you look in the marine supply stores and see plenty of solenoid switch panels being sold that do not contain a "sniffer." Again we are in the realm of "personal responsibility" in making decisions about how we want to go to sea and operate our boats.

[Sam Plan B]

A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance.

If you follow the letter of that you will need seperate regulators and solenoid valves for the stove and for each propane heater. How does that work? I guess you need a separate gas bottle for each appliance too. But can you gang all the gas bottles with their solenoid valves in the same locker? Maybe you need separate lockers too. Oh, and you need a separate power supply for each solenoid valve so you need a separate breaker for each on the panel board. But maybe the intent is to prohibit spliced gas hose behind a bulkhead where it cannot be inspected. Maybe a bronze T with a pipe branch to a heater makes sense after all. Or you can install multiple solenoid valves, and hoses, and breakers or stay with that alchohol stove.

[pressuredrop]

the point of that rule is to prevent potential leaks within the boat, you do not need 2 solenoids... the T in the line has to be inside the sealed compartment (or outside the boat for those with rail mount tanks) not inside the boat. 1 hose for the stove, one hose for the heater... not a big deal people considering how dangerous this stuff is...

[Sam Plan B]

A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance.

But that is not what it says. It does not permit anything, T or otherwise between the regulator, solenoid valve and the appliance. Therefor you must have separate regulator - solenoid valve -appliance sequence that "shall be continuous". Of course this is small potatos compared to building code that is all but impenetrable.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance.

If you follow the letter of that you will need seperate regulators and solenoid valves for the stove and for each propane heater. How does that work? I guess you need a separate gas bottle for each appliance too. . . .

The key word in the regulation is the word "from". As Pressuredrop said you do not need two of everything. One Tank and One regulator is fine. But you need or should have is two or more sensors which can be hooked into the safety solenoid valve so that a leak in any of the appliances would shut off the fuel supply. The Tee can be after the solenoid or you can use multiple solenoids with the Tee before each solenoids and its sensor. If you do not plan to use sensor(s) (Sniffer) then the "on/off" switch for the solenoid needs to be accessible from near each appliance. It is all common sense in that you need to be able to shut off the gas supply manually or automatically should a situation develop that would cause a gas leak.
- - The idea as I see it is that from the last protection device inside the Propane locker (which is vented to the outside) you need one continuous hose/pipe to the appliance except where the "transition" hose runs between the pipe to the appliance (if the appliance is capable of movement.

[Sailorman Ed]

I guess my boat should have exploded several times time. Made in 1974 and still using the original copper line to the original Calor stove. Most of the copper line has a layer of glass over it and since this is a cat, the stove in not gimballed. But I meet the standard since I am one continuous piece of tubing.

[BambooSailor]

My boat came with one piece copper tubing (from locker to close to a stove) with short rubber hose connecting the stove. When I brought boat to US I was told I have to replace it with one piece rubber hose to meet UACG requirements, which I did. But I liked copper tubing better. It retained the LPG for weeks, no leaks, no dissipation. On the other hand, LPG seems to dissipate from rubber hose within few hours... Just my 2 cents.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

My boat came with one piece copper tubing (from locker to close to a stove) with short rubber hose connecting the stove. When I brought boat to US I was told I have to replace it with one piece rubber hose to meet UACG requirements, which I did. But I liked copper tubing better. It retained the LPG for weeks, no leaks, no dissipation. On the other hand, LPG seems to dissipate from rubber hose within few hours... Just my 2 cents.

Copper tubing is quite legal in the USA and there is nothing wrong with such an installation. The main problem with copper is when it comes time to replace it or run a new line after the boat is made. Trying to thread a semi-rigid tubing material over and around and under and behind fixed parts of the boat is nearly impossible. You end up making a lot of bends and re-bends in order to get the copper tubing installed. This is not good for the material. Then there is the need to make the proper flare in the end fitting that goes to the appliance (stove/oven/heater).
- - This is where the rubber propane rated hose shows it versatility. It will flex easily and snake its way to the destination. And you don't need a transition piece - just enough length of hose to make the loop and droop so the appliance can gimbal without stressing the hose.
- - However, you should not be loosing any gas pressure in a "few hours." Like copper tubing, the propane rated hose should hold the pressure for a very long time. Either you have a leak in the appliance/oven/stove/heater valve system or a fitting is leaking. Possibly the gas shut-off solenoid (if you have one) is also leaking or the fitting on it are leaking.
- - Somewhere there is a leak and finding it should be a number one priority as you may be leaking propane into the interior of the boat. And that can lead to a "big bang" theory practical demonstration where your boat expands into another universe rather violently.

[ADMPRTR]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - Somewhere there is a leak and finding it should be a number one priority as you may be leaking propane into the interior of the boat. And that can lead to a "big bang" theory practical demonstration where your boat expands into another universe rather violently.

I wonder if in addition to the "big bang", could there also be the "big sleep" where one goes to sleep and never wakes up. Could the concentration from a leak ever cause one to asphyxiate or otherwise die from propane poisoning?

On a related topic, has anyone installed CNG appliances? I understand they are more difficult and expensive to maintain but somewhat safer because the gas will not collect in the bilge.