Pet peeve: Manufacturer's bilge pump wire size

[Kokanee]

Rule & Jabsco really seem to be cheaping out wherever possible since Xylem have taken over. I try to avoid their products, but they hold such a big share of the market.
I agree with the comment that bilge pumps have become a short term disposable item. They operate in a tough environment, but are not designed for the job required.

I install a small low amp pump at the bottom of the bilge and don't expect it to last more than a year. I have a better quality high volume pump mounted higher (dry and clean) which will do the bulk of the work if I ever get serious water intrusion.

[Bycrick]

I know this will sound snarky, but they DID put the correct sized wire on the pump, since the wires are only 3’ long. #14 wire is way more than adequate for a 3' run. If you want to assert that the wires should be longer, that’s a different issue. I’ve worked on several windlasses where the case is so tight that you can’t get a big enough wire on the terminals; you have to use a "too-small" pigtail from the windlass to the solenoid.

As for the comment up-thread about the wires not being jacketed (ie 2 separate wires), I seem to remember that many, many years ago one of the pump makers tried that and found that moisture would wick up in the space with the filler strands between the jacket and the wires and damage the motor.

[HopCar]

As I recall Rule pumps come with five or six feet of wire. That should be plenty to get you out of the bilge.

If you connect a float switch to it, you need co connect three wires to two wires. Butt connectors don’t work well for that, especially if you’re dealing with different size wires.

I always used a terminal strip and a jumper. I connect the wires to the terminal strip with heat shrink ring connectors (Don’t tell anybody but I actually use fork connectors) I give it a spritz of Boeshield or Corrosion Block and never have a problem with the connections.

When the pump or switch fails it is a lot easier to change.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

So I the customer am forced to decide between making a splice under bilge water, or putting up with undersized wire, all for the manufacturer to save a few cents. Sucks, frankly.

Sure can't disagree with that.

[cal40john]

I put my terminal strip on a stick attached to the bilge, then dropped a plastic pop bottle with the top cut off upside down over it and put a screw through the lower end of the bottle to hold it in place.

[CarlF]

And it really sucks because a leak to ground from a tiny bit of bare bilge pump wire that accidentally gets into the bilge water is one of the most common ways to create massive galvanic corrosion in running gear.

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by HopCar

As I recall Rule pumps come with five or six feet of wire. That should be plenty to get you out of the bilge.

I think you can buy them with longer leads but mine is three feet. In the broad scheme of things this isn't the biggest deal but I just feel that they could do a better job with a safety product. And it isn't just bilge pumps, the leads on my autopilot are pathetic though there isn't the additional issue of underwater splicing.

Originally Posted by HopCar

I always used a terminal strip and a jumper. I connect the wires to the terminal strip with heat shrink ring connectors (Don’t tell anybody but I actually use fork connectors) I give it a spritz of Boeshield or Corrosion Block and never have a problem with the connections.

When the pump or switch fails it is a lot easier to change.

Perfect.

Put one of these into the IP67-rated junction box, above the bilge waterline. I think fork connectors that have the little bends on the end so as to resist pulls are OK, my concern with many of these connectors is that the amount of metal they use are pretty small. The rim on some of the ring connectors is tiny and narrow

[Cyrus Safdari]

Originally Posted by Coolerking

Carlon boxes are nice too, but can be tough to get the proper glands to truly waterproof.
Plus, you will be using the same heat shrink stuff inside the box right?

A terminal strip with jumpers goes inside the junction box. The whole thing gets a good spray of dielectic. The box is installed as high up as possible outside the bilge. Tension-relief is provided for the wiring since the pump/switch assembly can get knocked around. Pump output hose and drains are oversized, no reason to rely on the opening size of the pump. This alone hugely improves output. I also put a fiberglass window screen material over the pump intake.

Glands aren't really an issue, test them first. Home made case scenario is to remove the rubber and pass the line through the small tube but filled with silicone or filler like Gorlilla Glue expands as it cures The gland doesn't really need to resist a lot of intense water pressure esp if the junction box is mounted high outside the bilge as it should be in the first place

[Cheechako]

The other thing that happens, on sailboats especially, is the power source goes to a battery selector, then to the main electrical panel, through a breaker and then back to the bilge pump. A long run of wire.

OTOH, Some boat manufacturers take the power directly from a battery to the bilge pump/switch bypassing any battery selector switch or long run to the main breaker panel. Often this is a much shorter wire run. I can't remember if there is anything on this in ABYC, but power boats come that way a lot.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

OTOH, Some boat manufacturers take the power directly from a battery to the bilge pump/switch bypassing any battery selector switch or long run to the main breaker panel. Often this is a much shorter wire run. I can't remember if there is anything on this in ABYC, but power boats come that way a lot.

As long as the positive is fused at the battery (or ideally at a bus near the battery) there is not a problem with this. Then all you need is a SPST switch on the panel for manual operation.

As far as heat shrink butt splices go they are used in wells and last underwater for years and years. If worried you can always add additional longer heat shrink over the butt connector.

Step-down butt connectors are quite common - Ancor and Vertex both supply them and any good marine store should stock them.

Many items come with smaller wire but as it is fairly short it isn't a problem. Just use heavier wire to them.

As far as longevity my Rule 2000 is over 10 years old and works well. Float switches are a constant issue but a good pump should last many years.

[Dougtiff]

I attach the 3 ft. wire coming off the pump to a Buss bar attached just under the cabin sole, or if deeper bilge, attach the bar as high as the wire will allow[3 ft.?], i believe the bigger issue is the head pressure, height above the pump on the exit, if you issue is look at the graph, the height makes a big difference on out put, also using corregated hose really impacts the flow rate[ don't know why the industry even makes it], and lastly, even if the bilge water comes above the connection, it will still work, it's only 12 volt's, not say 110 AC.

[Mike Banks]

That is just the tail that is expected to be soldered into the 12 volts DC system. For the boat DC 12 volts supply I never use anything less than twin cable with 6 mm diameter tinned copper wire. For larger loads I use heavy DC cable such as welding cable or aircraft quality tinned copper cable designed for heavy current--when I can get it from military surplus. This is only needed for winch or bow-thruster feeds and then usually from an auxiliary battery system. Anything that draws more than thirty amps for any period of time needs heavy conductors. Up to 15 amps, even twenty amps for short intervals, 6 mm will do it and not lose too many volts through the wire resistance.

I also run it in PVC conduits, sealed tubular ones in the bilges, and in re-openable rectangular, (sometimes having twin channels) or square re-openable in the vessel interiors.

Tidy wiring tends to be safe wiring--and I use solder and heat shrink tubing for all permanent connections, I dislike crimped connectors unless also soldered, and I never use Fahnstock or screw connectors on junction boxes if I can avoid it--but sometimes one can not avoid it.

I always use enclosed fuses--never open wire automobile fuses. For heavy fusing such as an anchor windlass or bow thruster I use proprietary overload switches fitted into gas and waterproof housings...