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**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 25-08-2022, 06:51

Hi folks,

I have a jabsco manual toilet that is working fine most of the time, and an empty holding tank that is doing the job as it doesn't take too many pumps before I see the waste coming from the thru hull. When flushing solid waste I use the dry bowl mode to get it out of the bowl (which it does perfectly) and then switch to wet bowl, but at this point it brings water in on every up stroke but is not able to move any water out on the down stroke. I then switch back to dry mode and keep pumping (notice that there's no back pressure or anything; the pump feels the same), but there's barely any movement. I need to keep at it a long time before it eventually starts to move water out, and then it's all good again.

Now, my understanding is that if I had clogged hoses I'd feel back pressure on the pump. If that's right, I guess it's unlikely my hoses are clogged? My best guess then is that something (chunk stuck in the joker valve?) is preventing the pump from generating the vacuum necessary to suck water out of the bowl. Does that make sense? Is the joker valve the likely culprit here or are there any other more likely candidates?

Thanks in advance!

Shrew · 25-08-2022, 07:08

On the Jabsco manual (I had a twist and lock), the wet would seem to pump in and out at around the same volume. We found we had to wet flush to fill, then dry flush to evacuate effectively.

When is the last time the pump was serviced? IF this is a twist and lock, they sell a basic service kit, a complete service kit, or an entire replacement pump. The entire replacement pump is only slightly more expensive than the service kit and significantly faster and easier to install.

peghall · 25-08-2022, 08:17

ALWAYS add water to the bowl ahead of solids. If your toilet isn't one that's designed to bring in water and hold it in the bowl, use a cup from the sink. Doing this will leave you with a lot cleaner bowl and require a lot fewer pumps to move bowl contents to the tank--which you can do in the dry mode, and also reduce the odds of a clog. After a solids flush, add a couple of cupfuls of water to the bowl to clean it and pump that all the way to the tank in the dry mode.

--Peggie

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 25-08-2022, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by peghall

ALWAYS add water to the bowl ahead of solids. If your toilet isn't one that's designed to bring in water and hold it in the bowl, use a cup from the sink. Doing this will leave you with a lot cleaner bowl and require a lot fewer pumps to move bowl contents to the tank--which you can do in the dry mode, and also reduce the odds of a clog. After a solids flush, add a couple of cupfuls of water to the bowl to clean it and pump that all the way to the tank in the dry mode.

--Peggie

My bowl is always kept wet, so when I'm flushing the solids out in dry mode, there's a fair amount (more than a cup) of water with it.

peghall · 25-08-2022, 13:52

I failed to make it clear that, for this purpose, a "cup" isn't 8 oz...it's a 12-16 oz cup, most likely two of 'em.

Start paying attention to how much water--depth, not volume --resides in most toilet bowls on land. That's how much water should be added to marine toilets ahead of solids. You're barely adding enough to turn the flush into very stiff "mud" that finally can move through the toilet discharge line only after you've added enough water to soften it by switching back and forth between "wet" and "dry" enough times.

Adding enough water ahead of use will still allow you to flush using the "dry" mode...I'd follow the flush with at least a couple of pumps of clean water to rinse the hose behind the flush.

--Peggie

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 25-08-2022, 15:00

Ok, I'll make sure to add more water next time, but if the cause was thick mud clogging the lines because of insufficient water, wouldn't that make it harder to pump?

Oh, and I do more than 10 pumps of clean water after the flush

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 27-08-2022, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by peghall

I failed to make it clear that, for this purpose, a "cup" isn't 8 oz...it's a 12-16 oz cup, most likely two of 'em.

Start paying attention to how much water--depth, not volume --resides in most toilet bowls on land. That's how much water should be added to marine toilets ahead of solids. You're barely adding enough to turn the flush into very stiff "mud" that finally can move through the toilet discharge line only after you've added enough water to soften it by switching back and forth between "wet" and "dry" enough times.

Adding enough water ahead of use will still allow you to flush using the "dry" mode...I'd follow the flush with at least a couple of pumps of clean water to rinse the hose behind the flush.

--Peggie

I did try with a lot more water (half full bowl) and even a couple wet mode pumps before pumping in dry, but as soon as the solids were gone, the water remaining in the bowl was stuck there and it took me nearly 100 pumps (each time the water would move a tiny bit) before it eventually got back to normal and started pushing water out.

Is this something that could be caused by a faulty joker valve?

peghall · 27-08-2022, 14:04

The solids need to go out with the water you've added to the bowl. A worn out joker valve could very well at least part of your problem'Cuz a new joker valve should only allow very slow seepage at first...but as joker valves wear, the slit gradually stretches, becoming a hole instead of a slit. So if water added to the bowl runs out almost as fast as you add it, it's waay past time to replace the joker valve...not only to keep water in the bowl, but because toilet pumping becomes increasingly INefficient as the joker valve wears. That could explain why flush is moving out but the water you've added to the bowl is NOT moving...the flush isn't really going anywhere either. All that pumping you're doing is needed to push the flush.

Or this just occurred to me: If you're in salt water, sea water mineral buildup in the toilet discharge line has reduced its diameter enough to become almost a complete blockage. That's not uncommon. Remove it from the toilet discharge fitting to check for that.

At the risk of being accused of trying to sell you something, I think you NEED my book (see link my signature below). Its title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em and the cures for those you failed to prevent. And I'm always glad to answer questions and do my best to solve problems

--Peggie

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 02-10-2022, 11:11

I think my initial description of the problem was not accurate. After struggling (literally, because it'd take close to 100 pumps to flush sometimes) for que some time, I'm pretty sure the issue was that the waste was stuck between the bowl and the pump, and that's why I didn't feel any back pressure and the pump would not suck water out of the bowl.

Once I realized that, I guessed the issue would be a faulty base valve gasket, even though it was less than a month old. Indeed the gasket was deformed and replacing it seems to have solved the issue

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 19-10-2022, 06:11

Unfortunately the issue remained after replacing the base valve gasket. Since then I've replaced the whole pump and the issue persists.

I'm pretty certain that it is not a clogged discharge pipe because the issue starts as soon as the first piece of solid waste leaves the bowl -- and sometimes it is just a small piece. From then on, the pump can be worked with no extra resistance but nothing leaves the bowl. Sometimes after plenty of strokes, air will come back into the bowl and then it starts working, but usually it stops as soon as another piece of waste gets sucked out of the bowl. Is it possible that these pieces are getting stuck on the joker valve, leaving it open and thus preventing the pump from creating the vacuum needed to suck stuff out of the bowl? I'm leaving plenty of water in the bowl but maybe the waste is too hard and not dissolving (or not being chopped into tiny pieces) immediately?

I guess I could confirm whether or not the problem is the joker valve by removing it altogether. Other than smell and waste backflow, is there anything else I should worry about if I go down that path?

peghall · 19-10-2022, 06:38

When you disconnected the toilet discharge line to replace the pump, did you look inside it to check for seawater mineral buildup in it? I've seen that reduce the diameter of a 1" or even 1.5" hose to less than 1/2" and would certainly explain your problem.

--Peggie.

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 19-10-2022, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by peghall

When you disconnected the toilet discharge line to replace the pump, did you look inside it to check for seawater mineral buildup in it? I've seen that reduce the diameter of a 1" or even 1.5" hose to less than 1/2" and would certainly explain your problem.

--Peggie.

I did. There was just a thin layer of mineral buildup in it

**LifesBetterWhenYoureBeating** · 19-10-2022, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by peghall

When you disconnected the toilet discharge line to replace the pump, did you look inside it to check for seawater mineral buildup in it? I've seen that reduce the diameter of a 1" or even 1.5" hose to less than 1/2" and would certainly explain your problem.

--Peggie.

If the diameter of the pipe was reduced, wouldn't the waste get stuck and make it harder to pump? In my case the pump resistance stays exactly the same all the time