Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2024, 04:05   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Jabsco twist and lock, not pumping out.

Our Jabsco twist'n lock head, (no bw tank attached) will not pump out after last use, no tp, it will not pump out on dry, after several pumps it felt like locked with pressure pushing back on the pump cylinder keeping it in up position, with high pressure, unable to push it down.

Before this happened, it got nearly stuck twice in 3 months, but usually a switch to wet and couple of pumps and then back to dry would have solved it.

What we did since :
Let vinegar with baking soda sit in it for + 12hours.
We took apart the pump, removed hose from pump, cleaned the part under the wet/dry switch, which seemed fine, so we put it back, we changed the joker valve which wasn't good anymore, and also cleaned the membrane below the joker valve and put it back, as well as the build up on the pump "cone", re-greased it all.
When we looked inside the hose from the pump side, there was not much of a build up, which made sense as the previous owner replaced hoses about 4-5 months ago.
Took a rubber hammer and hammered the hose, ball valve/elbow and co.

Put it all back together, added vinegar and tried pumping dry again.
Now there is less high pressure building up, not as in the beginning, but the pump on dry will do nothing, the lever will still come back up on it's own, now you can pump it though, it won't get stuck in up position from pressure anymore, but nothing else will go out or happen either, the water vinegar mix in the bowl will not swirl or go anywhere.

Before taking the plunge into the marina water to check if the seacock is blocked and/or taking the hose off entirely, I wonder if there is something else we may have missed to check/do?

Also: We never flush tp, this head is used for #1, the previous owner changed the hoses about 4-5 months ago. The elbow from the ball valve to skin fitting is 145°.

I read up on a few posts here as well, but quite a bit at a loss, any ideas or tips?

Thanks!
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 04:28   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,740
Images: 241
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Do you have the “User’s Guide” *, c/w Installation, Operation, Servicing/Maintenance, and Trouble Shooting Instructions, etc?
*https://www.xylem.com/siteassets/bra...marine-toilet/
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 04:34   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Thank you, yes we do.
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 04:38   #4
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,327
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

I spent a few unhappy years with one of these toilets in my guest heads.

My first advice to you would be to buy a complete new replacement pump, which is blessedly cheap (perhaps the only good thing about these devices). Swap it out, and see if you still have the same problem.

This is a cheap and quick way to find out whether the problem is in the toilet or in the plumbing.

Does sound like a plumbing problem, however -- specifically, a clog -- but it's good to narrow it down before you start pulling things apart, especially things as unpleasant to pull apart as sewage systems.

Another tip -- get rid of the thing. The Jabsco twist and locks are flimsy, ineffective, and short lived. The easiest way to get rid of it is to swap it out for the Jabsco electric toilet conversion, far from the best electric toilet on the market but 1000x better than the twist and lock. With this you can use TP without fear. Electric toilets are far, far less likely to clog because they macerate the waste before it ever hits your discharge hoses.

If you go this way, take the thing apart before you install it and treat all of the screws which go into alu with Tef Gel or Duralac. Don't ask me how I know to do this.

If you insist on a manual toilet for some reason, the Raritan lever action one is far better than the twist and lock. We had one of these on the previous boat and got maybe 20 years out of it completely trouble free.

If you really want to nail your toilet problems once and for all install a premium electric fresh water one. The fresh water will prevent calcification of the discharge hoses, and smells better. You can get them with a changeover so you can switch them to seawater in case you are conserving fresh water for whatever reason.

This conversion is expensive and a lot of trouble, but SO, SO worth it.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 05:07   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Gulfport Florida
Boat: Capital Yachts, Newport 30 mk3, 30'
Posts: 28
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

what about the anti siphon loop/vent… all good?
HippieTye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 06:31   #6
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,046
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Sounds like you have problem that's very common in Jabsco manual toilets--a failed wet/dry cam. The wet/dry "valve" is actually just a little "gate" (the cam) that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of incoming flush water. Due to either a tooling or mfr'g flaw, it hangs up...creating back pressure that feels like pumping against a clog or blocked tank vent, except it only happens in one mode--usually, but not always--the wet mode.
The cure: replace the wet/dry cam assembly…Jabsco will often send a replacement at no charge. However this requires taking the pump apart, which can be a nasty job if you haven’t been able to fliush.
.

So my advice: just replace the pump instead. It's prob'ly overdue for a
rebuild or at least a joker valve --and besides, modern Jabsco toilets have fairly short lifespan--they're purposely made to be "disposable" like everything else today. A service kit costs almost as much as a pump, which doesn't cost that much anyway... and swapping it out only requires removing and replacing the 4 bolts that hold the pump on the base and two hoses, which beats the socks off taking the pump apart!



--Peggie
__________________
© 2024 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 07:59   #7
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,327
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
. . . So my advice: just replace the pump instead. It's prob'ly overdue for a rebuild or at least a joker valve --and besides, modern Jabsco toilets have fairly short lifespan--they're purposely made to be "disposable" like everything else today. A service kit costs almost as much as a pump, which doesn't cost that much anyway... and swapping it out only requires removing and replacing the 4 bolts that hold the pump on the base and two hoses, which beats the socks off taking the pump apart!. . .

Indeed. Good advice. Why in the world would anyone take one of those toys apart? The pump is cheap as chips and blessedly only takes a few seconds to take off.


But better yet - get rid of it.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 08:52   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Thank you everyone for your ideas and opinions on the particular model.

Re-change the entire head to another model:
It is already on the "nice to have list" to change at least one of two head's to electric and freshwater setup, not a priority at all at the moment, maybe a winter project, depending on how much misery we'll have along this season...

Re: change Joker valve and other parts

We already did take it apart, as described in opening post, so too late not to do that.
At least we know it inside out now
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 09:01   #9
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by HippieTye View Post
what about the anti siphon loop/vent… all good?
... there isn't one
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 13:23   #10
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,046
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Actually there should be one in the intake...it needs to be at least 6-8" above the toilet at AT MAX HEEL, which puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl on most sailboats. It does NOT belong in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, it goes between the pump and the bowl, which requires replacing the short piece of hose the mfr used to connect them with enough hose to put the loop where it has to be to do its job.


The owners manual/installation instructions for every manual toilet includes a drawing illustrating this.


--Peggie



--
__________________
© 2024 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2024, 13:26   #11
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,046
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Sounds like you have problem that's very common in Jabsco manual toilets--a failed wet/dry cam. The wet/dry "valve" is actually just a little "gate" (the cam) that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of incoming flush water. Due to either a tooling or mfr'g flaw, it hangs up...creating back pressure that feels like pumping against a clog or blocked tank vent, except it only happens in one mode--usually,, but no always--the wet mode.
The cure: replace the wet/dry cam assembly…Jabsco will often send a replacement at no charge. However this requires taking the pump apart, which can be a nasty job if you haven’t been able to fliush.

So my advice: just replace the pump instead. It's prob'ly overdue for a
rebuild or at least a joker valve --and besides, modern Jabsco toilets have fairly short lifespan--they're purposely made to be "disposable" like everything else today. A service kit costs almost as much as a pump, which doesn't cost that much anyway... and swapping it out only requires removing and replacing the 4 bolts that hold the pump on the base and two hoses, which beats the socks off taking the pump apart!


--Peggie
__________________
© 2024 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2024, 01:46   #12
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
Actually there should be one in the intake...it needs to be at least 6-8" above the toilet at AT MAX HEEL, which puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl on most sailboats. It does NOT belong in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, it goes between the pump and the bowl, which requires replacing the short piece of hose the mfr used to connect them with enough hose to put the loop where it has to be to do its job.


The owners manual/installation instructions for every manual toilet includes a drawing illustrating this.


--
Thanks for explaining, I had a look and read up on these valves, in the manual there are 2 diagrams, one above and below water level where this valve is optional...

After checking all our hoses, there is definitely no anti siphon valve installed on this head...
Anyhow, will keep educating myself and maybe add one if needed.
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2024, 01:52   #13
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,327
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Haku View Post
Thanks for explaining, I had a look and read up on these valves, in the manual there are 2 diagrams, one above and below water level where this valve is optional...

After checking all our hoses, there is definitely no anti siphon valve installed on this head...
Anyhow, will keep educating myself and maybe add one if needed.

Fix that -- it can sink your boat.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2024, 02:19   #14
Registered User

Join Date: May 2024
Location: nomadic / MED
Boat: Bénéteau Océanis Clipper 473
Posts: 8
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
Actually there should be one in the intake...it needs to be at least 6-8" above the toilet at AT MAX HEEL, which puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl on most sailboats. It does NOT belong in the line between the thru-hull and the pump, it goes between the pump and the bowl, which requires replacing the short piece of hose the mfr used to connect them with enough hose to put the loop where it has to be to do its job.


The owners manual/installation instructions for every manual toilet includes a drawing illustrating this.


--Peggie



--
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Fix that -- it can sink your boat.
Well, there are nuances... but thank you, I appreciate you taking a minute to warn about this. I very much love our floating home and want to keep it that way, afloat.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-05-13 at 11.11.49.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	435.1 KB
ID:	289788  
SV Haku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-05-2024, 02:33   #15
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,327
Re: Jabsco twist and lock - will not pump out/dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Haku View Post
Well, there are nuances... but thank you, I appreciate you taking a minute to warn about this. I very much love our floating home and want to keep it that way, afloat.

Is the toilet above the heeled waterline? And more than 8" above the static waterline? That would be very unusual on a boat like yours. Otherwise, the vented loop is NOT optional, and it is not a theoretical or improbable risk. Plenty of boats have been sunk from faulty or absent vented loops in toilet installations.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jabsco, pump

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jabsco Twist and Lock Manual Toilet HandPump leaking Ricchezza Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 8 03-11-2020 14:43
Jabsco Twist and Lock Manual Toilet mickand Monohull Sailboats 15 29-07-2020 06:54
Jabsco Twist n Lock or Johnson Aqua T Rol1964 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 1 11-12-2019 17:46
For Sale: Jabsco Twist 'n' Lock Replacement Pump MTBlair Classifieds Archive 0 03-04-2015 12:30
Jabsco Twist / Lock Head dman535 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 16 20-10-2009 17:54

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.