Is odorless really odorless?

[peghall]

Hi Bill... I had read that Raritan had extended their warranty to 10 years, but haven't changed it on their website, so I need to confirm that with Raritan.


Merriam-Webster defines "permeate" as "to diffuse through or penetrate something." It's not air, but a combination of matter and anaerobic gasses generated by waste that permeates hoses. Waste and sea water leave a coating in hoses that builds up if not flushed with clean water following each flush or if plumbing allows waste to sit in hoses. The best ones are double walled, the inner wall being as close to impermeable as it's possible to make about anything except glass or metal.


--Peggie

[peghall]

101/102 is TRIDENT hose, not Raritan. It's been on the market 20+ years without a single reported odor permeation, though I have seen anecdotal claims that it has. It has just ONE drawback: it's as stiff as an ironing board! And it can't be heated and bent very far without damage. That makes it really only suitable for long straight runs...in which case you might as well use hard PVC which costs less.


Raritan hose is SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose



--Peggie

[sailorboy1]

[QUOTE=peghall;3247659]Hi Bill... I had read that Raritan had extended their warranty to 10 years, but haven't changed it on their website, so I need to confirm that with Raritan.
/QUOTE]

it says it right on the hose, 10 years for 1.5" and 5 for the 1"

[Bill O]

[QUOTE=sailorboy1;3247685]

Originally Posted by peghall

Hi Bill... I had read that Raritan had extended their warranty to 10 years, but haven't changed it on their website, so I need to confirm that with Raritan.
/QUOTE]

it says it right on the hose, 10 years for 1.5" and 5 for the 1"

Great, thanks for confirming.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by peghall

101/102 is TRIDENT hose, not Raritan. It's been on the market 20+ years without a single reported odor permeation, though I have seen anecdotal claims that it has. It has just ONE drawback: it's as stiff as an ironing board! And it can't be heated and bent very far without damage. That makes it really only suitable for long straight runs...in which case you might as well use hard PVC which costs less.


Raritan hose is SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose

--Peggie

Absolutely correct and I wrongfully mentioned Raritan 101/102 when I meant Trident.
Mine is very stiff, the radius need to be pretty long and forget about bending short runs, it is also wire reinforced so as Peggie mentioned, heating does nothing to help. But it works!

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by flee27

question on the no puddle comments. My holding tank is mounted against the hull side. The output of the toilet leads into the top of the tank. There is no way to not have a place to puddle. Should the hose should be run with the toilet outlet being the lowest point adn therefore the puddle point?

Foster

No. You want the toilet to output to the top or highest point of the holding tank. The flushing water should clear the waste from the line. However, there may always be flushing water in the hose.

If you have a vented loop in the line, waste should pass over the loop and drain completely into the tank. I can't see a way not to have flushing water in the waste line. Your pump-out line should pick up from the bottom of the tank. Depending on how this connection is made, there is higher likelihood of waste in that line. I would assume that the pickup would have an elbow so the hose could remain out of the waste.

[David B]

Originally Posted by peghall

There are hoses that are 100% odor permeation resistant. Yes, they are more expensive than single wall flex PVC #148, but worth the price if you only want to replace hoses ONCE. I recommend Raritan SaniFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose Not only has it proven the be 100% odor permeation resistant, but it has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking, which makes the job a LOT easier. Defender has it for < $10/ft. Raritan Sani / Flex Sanitation Hose at Defender

--Peggie

Then surely, even if it was $25 a foot, it is worth doing it right, doing it once - especially if the installation is so much easier.
Thanks for the tip Peggie - I will try to remember when the time comes.

[Bigjim]

Ok, I did a close inspection of the entire system and it was a terrible setup. The tank is higher than the toilet and has no vented loop. The hose from the toilet angled upward to the holding tank. So, that means if you didn't pump enough flushing water out of the toilet there would definitely be waste water always in the hose.

I've drilled some holes in a cabinet in the fore cabin that will allow me to install a vented loop above the level of the holding tank. So, as long as I pump enough water to clear the loop, the waste water will fully drain into the tank

Another issue I discovered is that the vent hose that was installed is too soft. Whenever we try to pump out, the vacuum collapses the vent hose and we can't pump out. So, I need to replace the vent hose most of all. The entire setup is pretty bad. No wonder it smelled bad.

Attached are two images of the current and new system. I've already installed the new toilet and it works great. It's so nice to have a toilet that works properly

[peghall]

Unless there's no way to run the line from the loop to the tank that wouldn't be cosmetically unacceptable, why not just mount the vented loop--which, btw, does NOT have to be a VENTED loop if only flushing into the tank--on the bulkhead behind the toilet? Running the toilet discharge line straight up from the toilet would require less hose and also less pumping to clear the top of the loop. Run the hose from the top of the loop down to the tank in as straight line as possible.

Use Shields or Trident #148 flex pvc sanitation hose for the new vent line.

--Peggie

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by peghall

Unless there's no way to run the line from the loop to the tank that wouldn't be cosmetically unacceptable, why not just mount the vented loop--which, btw, does NOT have to be a VENTED loop if only flushing into the tank--on the bulkhead behind the toilet? Running the toilet discharge line straight up from the toilet would require less hose and also less pumping to clear the top of the loop. Run the hose from the top of the loop down to the tank in as straight line as possible.

Use Shields or Trident #148 flex pvc sanitation hose for the new vent line.

--Peggie

That might be a solution except there's no way to get a vertical drop directly to the tank starting from the head. It would be easier to use the current routing and install the loop inside a cabinet in the fore cabin as in my diagram. I can set that up at least a foot above the tank inlet so that no waste will remain in the hose. I'm going figure out the total volume in that run and see how many pumps clear the bowl.

Next year I'm going to tear out much of the cabinetry in the head and rebuild it. running the hose up closer to the toilet would be a good idea then. In this configuration it will take around 8-9' of hose to get to the loop. In a new configuration, it could be done in 3-4 feet and produce a vertical drop the rest of the way. Perhaps even move the holding tank into the head behind the cabinet, although there may not be enough room for a decent sized tank.

The current system uses a Y valve and macerator to allow overboard discharge. Since I'm in the Great Lakes that isn't a legal option. I'm thinking of removing the Y valve until I'm closer to heading out to the Atlantic.

[peghall]

Give me a shout when you're ready to start the new configuration but before you do anything...I'll be glad to help you map it out.


--Peggie

[dfelsent]

I have replumbed two boats with the Raritan hose. Worked well both times!
The smell from the old hoses does permeate the wood and glass around it. After replacing the hoses and repeatedly washing the surfaces and waiting a year or two and flushing with fresh water the smells go away!
It’s all a complex system and it takes lots of changes and time for it all to work.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by peghall

Give me a shout when you're ready to start the new configuration but before you do anything...I'll be glad to help you map it out.


--Peggie

Thanks! I will do. I spent all day yesterday to run the hose from the toilet to the holding tank. The hose I used is high quality but very stiff. It was a real bear to get them through tiny spaces and make sure the run from the loop to the tank was downhill all the way.

[Bigjim]

I think one of the problems with boat plumbing is the design of the tank itself. Why are they rectangular? They should have a "v" bottom to funnel all the goop to the lowest spot. It's impossible to pump out a rectangular tank completely. There will always be residue left behind.

[peghall]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I think one of the problems with boat plumbing is the design of the tank itself. Why are they rectangular? They should have a "v" bottom to funnel all the goop to the lowest spot.

Although it's rare to find an off-the-shelf tank in a retail marine store or catalog that isn't rectangular, there are several tank mfrs who make non-rectangular tanks. Ronco Plastics is the best known. Not only do they make TOP quality thick-walled (at least 3/8") water and waste tanks for a very reasonable price, they have more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are NON-rectangular, and they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. There are retailers who sell Ronco tanks, but Ronco sells direct for a much lower price...and they're great to work with. Their current marine catalog is here Ronco Plastics marine Tanks And because so many people told 'em their previous catalog is much easier to search, you'll find that one here Ronco Plastics old marine catalog.

Other mfrs who also offer rotomolded polyethelene non-rectangular tanks are Moeller Marine Trionic Corp tanks Moeller Marine and DURAWELD

It's important to check things like their wall thickness, availability of custom fittings locations and sizes and upcharges for them as well as for increased wall thickness.

In the unlikely event you can't find a size and shape that works for you among all those mfrs, Triple M Plastics Triple M Plastic Products Inc makes top quality custom molded plastic tanks.

However tank shape is actually the LEAST of what's wrong with OEM tank installations...boat builders are--hands down--the WORST sanitation system designers anplumbers on the planet! They're guided entirely by the lowest possible cost way to do it. I've seen enough nightmare OEM systems to write another book on that alone!

--Peggie