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Old 12-08-2018, 11:10   #46
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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The number of heads isn’t so important. What matters is the captain must have one and in case of an emergency he/she must be able to keep it.

I like the new heading
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:15   #47
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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Surely there are more important matters to discuss?
Well, sure, but on a forum with half a million views of the joke thread, this is at least related to boats. I appreciate learning the opinions of others regarding the head count. There were details mentioned that I hadn't fully considered.

You may have missed the bigger message, which also applies to questions of two engines versus one. I find that many people fail to understand the math behind probability and redundancy. That is, having two crucial devices is MUCH BETTER than simply "twice as good" as having just one.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:53   #48
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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hmmm . . . . you carry head spare parts? Right? And you can turn a screwdriver - right? and you do routine annual maintenance - right? And you have a bucket - right? Then you only need one. We sailed twice RTW with one - never an issue. I personally would argue on a boat under about 50' that two is a waste of valuable space.

I concur, but then we have a Lavac. And a bucket.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:25   #49
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

I have always been amazed by frequency of non-operational heads on boats with multiple heads. In 50 years of sailing I have only once been on a boat with a single head that it broke down. In that case the captain had the proper repair kit and all was back in order in about an hour.
My favorite story is about the owner who decided his operational heads needed to be replaced because they were too noisy. New ones were very quiet. in fact silent. that may be because he and his crew were using my single conventional manual head while he tried to figure out what went wrong with his.
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Old 12-08-2018, 14:12   #50
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

Now, about bucket use....

How many "spare" heads do you need to feel safe? I guess for some people, bucket use is really unpleasant to contemplate.

To me, using the bucket is definitely a viable alternative, because at haulout times, it is too far and too cold at night to get up from sleep, put on clothes acceptable locally, climb down the ladder, and arrive at the rest room "in time"). Sometimes, people use a bucket with a sealing lid for the purpose, and the bucket is taken to the on shore toilet, and its contents flushed into the local drains, and then cleaned. It is less labor intensive than burying fecal matter deep enough in the soil to safely decompose, as one does when backpacking.

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Old 12-08-2018, 14:34   #51
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

Nicely said Ann.

My one head is a composter, so really just a fancy bucket. Bomb-proof. Only way it can fail is if I forget to close the deck vent when taking major green seas and have sea water flood the bin (to offer a random example [emoji6]).
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Old 12-08-2018, 15:29   #52
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

I had two of them. I recall one of them (in the aft cabin) being used only once in several years. When not used the sea-cock was closed and the system flushed with disinfected fresh water. If you do use an extra head not likely to be used often, freshwater flushing from its own disinfected reservoir tank is pretty vital or your vessel will stink of H2S. A cheap tank can be made up from a solar hot water shower--it can be refilled as needed and takes up little space if one does not want to do the job properly and use a standard plastic domestic toilet flush cistern connected to your water supply, but with the dropper valve closed off and instead a pipe connected to the intake of the macerator/flush pump. (it is really two pumps, one pumps macerated sewage out-the other pumps the flushing fresh water in) That means a U-shape in the pipe to avoid fumes from the pump reaching the resevoir of freshwater limited by the float valve used in most cisterns.

Never connect the heads directly to your freshwater tankage or shore supply system.

I think one heads is plenty for two people. More people aboard means more heads--but two should suffice for up to six people, maybe even more. There is always a bucket solution for emergencies..
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Old 12-08-2018, 16:39   #53
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

[Sexist comment warning: If my honest opinion based on long experience offends you - don't read this]

If there are any women aboard, you need two. Designate one as the "men's" and the other as the "women's", and expect the women's head will be broken far more often. I'll let you guess why, or just ask any plumber.

If you require men to fix the men's, and women to fix the women's, the problem will be somewhat diminished after a repair or two. But heaven help you if you try to explain the problem.
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Old 12-08-2018, 16:54   #54
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

Right now one head (broken for sometime) one bucket (functioning perfectly). Thinking on a second bucket...
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Old 12-08-2018, 18:00   #55
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

Hmmm. Quite a few 6 people on a boat and 1 head, no problems that I remember; or I grew up with five siblings and only 1 bathroom in the house, no problems that I remember; or a bucket is all you need, I don't remember anyone complaining. The common thread seems to be that a lot of people have weak memories. Assuming we are talking about a boat with one or more additional staterooms and anticipated guests which you wish to accommodate reasonably well - yes, at least 2 heads would be appreciated. Whether you need two separate shower stalls is more a subject for discussion, as showers can be scheduled.
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Old 12-08-2018, 19:53   #56
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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Right now one head (broken for sometime) one bucket (functioning perfectly). Thinking on a second bucket...
A second bucket! Good call.

All this bucket business is just fine for me. However, there is a certain degree of modern civilization that some of us have promised to our sailing partners. You know- sail the world with me and you'll have a fresh water shower. No, not a blow-dryer but a decent mirror. No, not a bathtub, but certainly a proper toilet.

Backpacking and tent camping is awesome, but we probably wouldn't consider it a way of life for ten years. Cruising long-term with a partner seems more of a sure thing with some proper plumbing. The Ancient Romans sorted out plumbing and human hygiene pretty well. I don't see any reason to convince the Admiral that they were needlessly luxurious.
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Old 12-08-2018, 23:55   #57
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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Yes… and a whole lot of stuff now costs a lot more; education, housing, healthcare, pensions — arguably all the important stuff. There is no data I am aware of which shows the younger generations are richer than the Baby Boomers/Gen-Xers. There is tons of financial and sociological data that shows the opposite.
Setting aside the political aspects....Education is far bette now also. Housing is nicer. Healthcare...as a kid, if you heard someone got cancer, it was a death sentence. You are looking at it thru a pure dollars point of view still when you talk about being "richer". Also, you are compaing it to one generation (babyboomers). If you look relative to prior generations, we are still way better even in (inflation adjusted) dollars.

I can’t easily find credible stats on the tiny house market (my net connection is sketchy). Might be hype, as you say, but I don’t think so. All the trends in the up and coming generations point to smaller house sizes. The tiny house trend is only the extreme end of this. Normal house sizes are shrinking (for the first time in generations), driven by the new buyers, but also by the shift to condo life.
Again, 4000-5000sft houses were an aberration that never made any sense. 1200-2000sft makes far more sense. I wasn't talking about that but 'tiny houses'...that is what is a fad.

AirBnB, Uber, and the like are great business models — for the companies, and for the customers. The benefits vary greatly for the actual owners. It’s great for the companies b/c no longer need to maintain any capital. They shift all the risk and the expenses on to the house or car owners, and they reap the profits. The benefits to the owners are varied — some do great, some not so much. Plenty of analysis of Uber showing few drivers make more than poverty wages when all the expenses are added in.
The only losers with airbnb that I see are hotels. It increases supply and drives down prices but that's just normal market forces. What's interesting is airbnb has evolved such that we almost never come across someone who is simply out of town for the week and renting their personal home. It's mostly people who buy rental properties and use the website as a marketing tool. Uber...that's still sorting itself out and lot is due to outdated regulations. I expect it will hold up well in monopolistic areas (think NYC and their million dollar taxi medallions) but in less monopolistic areas there won't be much advantage over a standard taxi.

Back to heads… makes perfect sense for large boats with large crews; especially so for charter vacationers. Makes little biological or functional sense on smallish boats with smallish crews.
I think we can agree on the last part.
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Old 13-08-2018, 04:19   #58
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

However many the Admiral requires.
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Old 13-08-2018, 07:24   #59
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

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but then we have a Lavac.
yea, it's helpful to have a really good head, probably better than 2 crappy ones
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Old 13-08-2018, 07:41   #60
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Re: How many HEADS does a boat really need?

We sailed small open boats while young, when we could afford our first keel boat with a head it took my wife years to train me to stop pissing over the side.
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