Hot water on demand?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

.. .

I understand the concern with gas - it isn't a trivial danger, but think about this. Millions of homes in the US use forced air gas furnaces - most homeowners don't even know how to change an air filter let alone inspect their heat exchanger, or check that the combustion fan is operating without grind. But you don't hear of too many gas explosions from them. They're safer and have more safeguards than your stove.

Just remember.that natural gas in a house is lighter than air and disperses easily. And houses don't have bilges, so has safety even with LPG is fairly trivial, compared to the situation on a boat.


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[SV DestinyAscen]

No one is saying storing gas bottles in cabin... Again on demand gas heaters can be done right. The potential point of failure in a properly installed system is the same as a gas stove, only difference is the combustion air and exhaust air are both isolated and ducted to the exterior. Whereas in a gas stove, well - it is essentially just an open flame in our boats.

[smj]

We use the Ecotemp L5 on our boat. Great piece of equipment and if plumbed right I would guess as safe or safer than the propane stove. ABYC has some good regulations, and some that try to protect idiots from being idiots. Use common sense.

[Pauls]

As was posted earlier, if the on demand water heater is treated the same way as the stove, ie an electric solenoid valve which is kept off at all times except when hot water is needed, and if the combustion area of the heater is sealed, with intake and exhaust routed outside the boat, I don't see why it should be considered any more dangerous than the stove we are all familiar with. As Sailor Chic said, it should be safer than the stove which has all combustion open to the cabin.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Pauls

As was posted earlier, if the on demand water heater is treated the same way as the stove, ie an electric solenoid valve which is kept off at all times except when hot water is needed, and if the combustion area of the heater is sealed, with intake and exhaust routed outside the boat, I don't see why it should be considered any more dangerous than the stove we are all familiar with. As Sailor Chic said, it should be safer than the stove which has all combustion open to the cabin.

Did you look at the unit used above, Echotemp L5? I don't see where it comes close to your "ifs".

[smj]

Can't recall any propane stoves that have intake and exhaust routed outside the boat.

[Dirk Williams]

Sailorchic, thank you. While I appriciate all input for my application, I find some here to be Over the top on what's reasonable.

It was my thought to not run gas lines from my stern to the head, but to screw in one, one pound bottle into a short length of gas appropriate hose, turn on my water via the hand held wand, soak down. Shut off the wand, lather up, and then rinse off. Upon completion of my shower, unscrew the one pound bottle and secure it on deck..,

I have zero open flames on the boat, unless I'm cooking with my alcohol stove.

I don't plan on cooking while showering very often.

As has been suggested, I've got a overhead hatch within 3"feet,,and as a saftey precaution have no problems opening the hatch, as a vent.

I view running gas line from the stern, forward with elbows and other fittings as far more precarious then simply spinning a,one pound bottle on before showering, and removing it, after showering.

I did find the suggested rules and find most to be reasonable. But my real observation was that someone's making money for those installs. These rules strike me as rules made by marine mechanics, who stand to profit from the rules they make.

I'm not interested in paying for stuff I'm capable of doing myself. I'm into sailing for fun not to,make someone's payroll.

Dirk

[transmitterdan]

Dirk,

An overhead hatch will not vent a propane leak. Propane is heavier than air and so it sinks. The "rules" about propane are not just some get rich quick scheme by mechanics.

Stowage of 1lb bottles is problematic on most boats. The tanks are steel and rust rapidly. They cannot be stowed inside the boat per the "rules". They have to be in a place such that a leak will always let the gas flow down and off the boat without seeping inside.

[Dirk Williams]

Thank you, my plan is listed above, I intend to stow the bottles in PVC drilled tubes, above deck. I didn't start this thread, just trying to learn a best practice.

My boat is older with no propane or gas lockers. I'm not interested in building an above deck locker, so I'm working out something safe, yet practical.
My ventilation is 12v fans, in the cabin, unaware of any vents below, in the bilge area.

Worst case, hang the water heater on the mast, with a bottle, and run the hose thru the hatch into the head for,a shower.

As for rust, these are one time use for me, empty, they go into the trash and are dumped next port of call.

I'll find a way that's safe practical, and for a reasonable cost.

Dirk

[hobopacket]

I know not as convenient, but honestly heating up water in a Black bag in the sun ( can get super hot ) then putting in a small battery powered camping shower would work well and super simple.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Well I just ordered the Hurricane II Combi unit.
A warm boat and hot water all in one package.
Hurricane II Combi | International Thermal Research
It wasn't cheap but I'm DONE with my Dickinson Antarctic Diesel heater as well as the 45minute generator run daily to make hot water. This baby should make living aboard on a mooring much more comfortable.

[Dirk Williams]

My first adventure will be north, into,Canada, and Alaska. I'm not convinced a black bag shower is in my best interest. I've used them before I've actually burned myself,pretty good using one in the az area.

I'm sticking with my ecco5L system, at issue is where I'll be showering. I'd like it to be in the head, but it's not critical, the ability to,shower daily is critical. I like clean.

Rich, very nice, just not in the cards for me. I'm saving for your water maker, can't do both. At least not this year.

Dirk

[Rapanui]

The real reason to have an open portlight or hatch when using a unit not exhaust vented to the outside like the Eccotemp L5 is to prevent CO poisoning. It will not help should there be a gas leak.
The L5 has electronic ignition via an internal drycell battery so there is no pilot flame. Used as intended as a shower device, it is not used unattended either. As has been pointed out, on a boat used for showering it would be on for no more than 5 minutes.
Given that, and used with the same common sense and installation as for a galley stove, I would regard it as at least as safe as the stove. The only issue with the L5 I found is that it is very sensitive to water inlet pressure both absolute and fluctuations which means it may not work on many boats with large fluctuations in water pressure. It is still safe, it just shuts down when it does not like the supply.
We bought ours as an emergency shower for use when we were taking our water system and bathroom apart and fitting new heating. It was brilliant. I have no need to fit the unit on our boat but if required I would, but would avoid using one shot gas canisters as they are flimsy and are prone to leaking but instead use a separate gas line as for a stove and installed to the same standards.
The UK Boat Safety Scheme is a good source of practical common sense for this and other areas. It is less prescriptive than most standards Stay Safe | Boat Safety Scheme | Go Boating - Stay Safe

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Well I just ordered the Hurricane II Combi unit.
A warm boat and hot water all in one package.
Hurricane II Combi | International Thermal Research
It wasn't cheap but I'm DONE with my Dickinson Antarctic Diesel heater as well as the 45minute generator run daily to make hot water. This baby should make living aboard on a mooring much more comfortable.

It's an expensive unit, but the hotwater-on-demand is really nice. The main unit fit in the place we had our old hotwater-on-demand tank.

[hellosailor]

"1lb. bottles that I stored in my ABYC compliant locker for a year ..... they are empty "

Most of us take, or took, propane for granted. How could anything that is stocked and sold in every corner hardware store be dangerous?

But it turns out that the valve in those 1# bottles (and similar) is just a rubber ball that is being held in the neck by pressure and a little spring. If the rubber ball isn't perfect or a speck of dirt gets in, it isn't sealed and the gas will come out. That's all that is keeping the gas in, a little half-cent rubber ball and a half-cent spring.

If you shop around, there are brass caps that screw onto those propane bottles, about 2/$5 in camping stores, which add a better layer of protection. O-ring seal in the cap, screws right on to ensure that a leaking valve can't discharge the tank.

One visit to a burn ward can give you religion about combustible gasses.