holding tanks, pump outs, and full time in marinas?

[skyhawk]

Originally Posted by peghall

If you are new to this, go get yourself a copy of Peggy Hall's book, "Get Rid of Boat Odors", it is all about marine sanitation systems.

I certainly can't argue with that advice! The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.


You'll find a link to it in my signature below...just click on the title.


--Peggie

thanks, I just bought the kindle edition to have a look at it. Very premature for me I suppose, but since the question came to mind..... it'll be good to have an understanding of this necessary evil as I continue to daydream options and look at boats.

And thanks to everyone else too. Helps to understand what variations I might see out there. I'm surprised..and and the same time not so surprised.... about the relatively small tank sizes and the logistics required at some marinas.

[hpeer]

VERY roughly
Fresh water is more strict, many places require you to have no possible method of pumping over board.

Salt water discharge for toilets is permitted 3 miles or more off shore.

Some specific salt water/tidal areas are “no discharge zones.” Pump out is mandatory.

Some folks use composting heads, but some locals prohibit disposal of waste matter in garbage.

Some folks use a USCG approved “treatment system”. See Raritan Engineering.

Some places I have sailed prohibit overboard discharge, but have NO pump out facilities.

Its all very local and specific to the cruising area. And questions come up frequently.

[clockwork orange]

We have a pump out near the fuel dock, we also get to winterize hundreds of boats each season and even though we are in a no discharge area I am amazed at how many boats have y valves, presumably because they have come from areas that allow overboard discharge offshore. Many are not disabled even though I believe they should be. People can not be relied on to comply so once the boat is locally licensed the entire overboard plumbing should be removed altogether.

[skyhawk]

Originally Posted by hpeer

VERY roughly
Fresh water is more strict, many places require you to have no possible method of pumping over board.

so how does that work when visiting or transiting?

Originally Posted by hpeer

Some places I have sailed prohibit overboard discharge, but have NO pump out facilities.

and how does that work?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by skyhawk

so how does that work when visiting or transiting?


and how does that work?

I did not say it works. I said what is.

You are seeking logical answers for human decisions. Doomed!!!! LOL

[AKA-None]

Well I’ve learned more new stuff here thanks!

[zemurray]

On the Florida pan handle we’ve discovered it can be a real difficulty to find pump out services while cruising. Hurricanes have taken out quite a few marina’s that still haven’t been built back or all services restored years later. We’ve managed to find pump outs, but we’ve really had to plan pretty far ahead and make lots of phone calls, and plan our routing around the few pump outs available. It can be very difficult with a small holding tank and no holding tank macerator pump capability.

Our current marina has a pump out available (its a boat that comes around once a week). We rely on that when we do local weekend cruising and come back with a full holding tank. While at the marina we dont use our head however, we use the facilities at the marina.

Our holding tank is 16G, and the most we can get out of it with a couple, is 5 days. It can easily be only 2 days if you don’t really conserve your usage and flushing techniques.

We have never discharged overboard illegally (if you exempt peeing off the side of the boat,, LOL). I know for a fact a lot of people do it. I’ve smelled it before. With so few pump outs available and so many people using their boats for days on end without going offshore I see no other explanation. Most people I’ve talked to dont even know what a type 1 MSD is, so I dont think there is wide spread adoption of that option. I actually had a guy who lives aboard his boat and cruised long distance for 30 years tell me it was illegal to discharge overboard with a type 1 MSD (its not, with exception of NDZ’s).

We’ve done a lot of research on this topic trying to rid ourselves of the pump out stress. Peggy has been a great resource! We are in process now of installing a type 1 MSD (Raritan Purasan), so that we can legally discharge treated waste overboard. If you ask me, this is the best option and a huge stress relief while coastal cruising the US. Based on our experience in FL, its simply not practical to cruise for long periods at a time relying on pump outs. There simply isn’t enough out there. For example, from Destin FL all the way to Carabelle FL there is only 2 pump outs available. One in St. Andrews bay which was just fixed last summer after having none for over a year and half. The other one was at a marina up the carabelle river inlet. Right now I only know of 1 working pump out in Pensacola Bay open to the public. Thats over 200 miles of coastal distance with only a couple pump outs.

[hpeer]

Yeah, now back in the States (covid!!! #%^*) we have just finished installing a Purasan. Still not in the water. But it seemed to make sense. We HATE marinas. Long full keel backs like a wounded banshee.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by Exctyengr

If you are new to this, go get yourself a copy of Peggy Hall's book, "Get Rid of Boat Odors", it is all about marine sanitation systems. She covers the laws, goes over various options for heads, suggests holding tank capacities vs. boat length, maintenance, hoses, vents, joker valves and about everything you need to know (whether you think you need to or not). The book is inexpensive, comprehensive, and well written.
Do yourself a favor and go buy it.

It's on Amazon for the Kindle too off you're into that. I like Kindle for novels but find reference books better on paper. Easier to look up specific subjects.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Air Head, composting head no problems, no need for a pump out.
I yanked out all the blackwater plumbing, holding tank, and head in two boats so far.

[zemurray]

We looked at composting heads. One problem is that none of them would even come close to fitting in our small head. Second issue is that they still have a strong urine oder on the boats we’ve been on that had them. Third issue is that a lot of marina’s are starting to ban boats with composting heads because they are getting tired of people filling there dumpsters with the “dirt”. I know some people with composting heads that are happy with them for sure and are not running into the marina issues yet, however as much as they have gained in popularity, we didn’t want to risk it, not to mention it wont fit anyway. Type 1 MSD is a great option.

[Scott Berg]

Each marina will be different; at our yacht club we have pump out at the slip twice a week. The staff handles it unattended; similar to Ft Lauderdale. Other places are less helpful. Worth learning about when you pick a marina

[skyhawk]

I've read about composting heads a bit in the RV world.

Seems to me they could be something to consider for ONE of the heads on a boat with two or more....askind of an alternative backup....but seems to me that they introduce all sorts of their own 'issues' too. IN some ways like the little thetford portapottie we had in our old popup trailer camper. It worked well but it's not something I'd want to deal with as a full timer.

[JanetGroene]

Depends on the marina, of course. If you live on board in winter, know in service is provided both summer and during freezes.

[GrowleyMonster]

Our marina has a pumpout station at the head of one pier. You move your boat there, turn on the electric pump and prime the hose, and stick the rubber sucky nozzle into your deck fitting. The pump slurps it all out and into the shore sewerage system. Then considerate users pump some lake water through it to help prevent clogs.

Some liveaboards here use the shoreside facilities. When I lived aboard, I usually went ashore for #2 and used a jug for #1 rather than fill up my tank, and only "went" onboard when weather was uninspiring or I was just lazy. Onboard heads SHOULD be operated at least once a week, though.

Tank size varies a lot. On MR WIGGLES the original tank wrapped around the base of the head and was portable, about 3 gallons, I think. I replaced that with a 5 gallon tank and a new Jabsco manual head, and later installed a 20 gallon tank when I built the shower stall and moved the head into it. Gray water went overboard. The new head had no overboard discharge capability, so no Y valve or OVBD valves to padlock or seal. I am kind of meticulous about overboard discharges and recordkeeping and so originally I kept a log of sewage valve openings and weekly inspections of the system. Also had two valves between sewage and the skin of the boat. I dispensed with all that when I set up the new system. In an emergency I could pressurize the vent line and force sewage slowly out the deck fitting and a cam lock fitting and hose going overboard. Risky business, that, and I tested this extensively before going "live" with it. I never used this in practice, it was simply a "just in case" thing so I could sail outside the line and pump out, if I had no other alternative and the generously sized tank got full, like in an anchorage, for example.

I did consider composting, and also a Type II system, which uses biological action and disinfectant to render sewage safe and in most places legal to discharge. I decided that the road well traveled was the simple and inexpensive way. But in a new build, I would probalby go with a type II and a backup holding tank for areas where type II discharge is not permitted, and an onboard pump for discharging overboard.

Your marina most likely has its own rules about pumping and dumping and carrying poop buckets or pee jugs around, or living or sleeping aboard, required equipment and inspection or survey, stuff like that. Your state may have laws that go beyond federal law, and of course federal law prohibits ALL raw sewage discharge inside 3 miles, and further restricts discharge within some areas. If you can't comply, then don't live aboard or sleep aboard, unless you want to risk eviction or fine.