Holding tank stink spreading

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Here's a picture (courtesy of Rodd Collins @ Marine How-To) of a "regularly maintained" sanitation hose filled with calcium deposits - and it was certainly not 15-years old!

Your whole plumbing system probably needs an upgrade. Start with Peggie's book. She is the Goddess in this department.

Attachment 255103

Marine How-To
http://www.marinehowto.com

The New Get Rid of Boat Odors
(Author: Peggie Hall)
https://www.amazon.ca/New-Get-Rid-Bo...98623569&psc=1

Good luck!
LittleWing77

the macerator pump may leak as well, even very little makes a stink myself I installed a waste pump on top of the tank works like a charm some times I have to pressurize the tank by using a harmonica plunger ( hope that that makes sense
Aging hoses and leaky connections or worst case leaking tank!

[vpbarkley]

Nose plugs?

[OS2Dude]

A synopsis of Sanitation procedures as I understand them is as follows:

Allow as much air to the tank as you can. Aerobic bacteria do not create odors.

Keep vent line as straight and vertical as possible.

Do use Probiotic holding tank treatments. We use 'Forget About It' for boats.

Do NOT use chemicals that kill everything or try to perfume the odor.

Do NOT use 'filters' in the vent line, they just block air flow.

Especially do NOT put a dip in the vent line to act as a 'P' trap. Depending on where the vent is pointed on deck you will regret it! (Our holding tank vent is in a stanchion and points right at the opening port in the head. . . )

[Mike Banks]

I would say that the breather system carbon filter is not functioning. You need to buy some activated charcoal, obtainable from fish-fanciers' aquarium supplies, and replace the carbon in your carbon filter. If there is no carbon filter--fit one. In my case the vent for the breather, after passing through the carbon filter, was just behind the toe rail. I removed the fitting and carried the outlet hose to the anchor chain locker instead. That vents through the chain hawse pipe

I would NEVER put chlorine into a holding tank and let it sit for long periods. You will be letting out some very nasty organo-chlorine compounds when you finally pump it out at sea. I used non-chloride sterilants, the same ones I put into the shower waste to allow me to use re-cycled shower water to flush the heads into said holding tank. The shower water went into a plastic 100 litres holding tank and the overflow from that went over the side via a siphon breaker. It does not take much fresh re-used water to flush the heads on macerator toilet systems. I also used this re-cycled fresh water to high-pressure spray-wash the anchor and chain as it comes aboard. That makes no stinking anchor chain lockers.
Galley waste water goes over the side.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't intend to send this thread into the crapper, but I'll add that if you want to solve all your stink problems, there is another approach to handle onboard human waste. They're called composting heads (although they should rightly be called dessicators.)

I won't say more for risk of driving a thread-drift, other than to encourage the OP to consider this option. For small crew numbers, they work exceedingly well, but come with different challenges.

Good luck with solving the problem. Nothing worse than a stinky boat.

Someone had to say it. If you do not mix the two components that humans excrete from their bodies you have the problem conquered to begin with.

[Uncle Bob]

My advice would be to contact Peggie and follow her advice, or buy her book, or both.

[clockwork orange]

Step 1,
Remove everything associated with the existing sanitation system and
throw it in the dumpster.
Step 2,
Scrub, scrub,scrub. and while you are at it make sure you get every bit of the rancid pink antifreeze from the bilge, it can stink as bad as the disgusting sewage system.
Step 3,
Install a composting toilet and move on.

[ParL]

Originally Posted by peghall

You can turn your portable portapotty into what's known as an "MSD" portapotty by adding a fitting to the top of tank to connect a pumpout hose and a second one for a vent line...You already have a vent thru-hull and a deck pumpout fitting, all you'd need is a little hose. Not hard to do, thanks to a li'l gizmo called the Uniseal UNISEAL

Or you can just replace your existing portapottie with one designed to be the MSD version. The 5 gal version holds up to 60 flushes and is household height...and they have some nice little add-ons--TP storage and tank level indicator. Check out the Dometic SaniPottie 975 MSD Defender has it Dometic SaniPottie 975 MSD Either way, you'll never have to carry the d'd thing off the boat again...although you could if you absolutely have to.

I wondered if this was possible, but now I know. Small boat (Amigo 23), with no heads (PO used a small bucket on day-sails). I was either looking at something expensive (rebuild to fit an Airhead), medium expensive (smallest regular head + 40 L tank) or cheap and messy ("composting bucket", peeing in a jug and a portapottie for civilized guests). You have given me a sensible fourth option (now I just need to find the parts in Sweden or get them here).

[peghall]

I failed to notice that you aren't in the US and unfortunately "MSD" portapotties don't exist in Europe. But easy enough to turn any portapotty or cassette toilet into one if you're handy enough to use a hole saw on a power drill:

The Uniseal is essentially just a rubber grommet. The sizes you'd need are small and lightweight enough to be airmailed from the US in a padded envelope. Sanitation hose is readily available in the UK and/or (I THINK) Denmark.... just be sure to get the size that mates to your deck pumpout fitting. A few hose clamps would be the only other things you'd need.

--Peggie

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by foggysail

YES--- CHARCOAL WORKS in vent lines. And PVC for sure as hose replacements. PVC piping will never, ever stink.

Agreed, if at all possible one should use pvc pipe rather than the expensive hose that is only a temporary fix. Polyethelene tanks although readily available can also permeate so can be part of the problem. Vent lines are usually too small and often get plugged with toilet paper when people allow the tank to get too full. Pump out early. I work in a marina with over 300 slips. They all stink, its just a matter of degrees but we can smell them as soon as we open the hatch, owners seem to become nose blind. The other thin i have mentioned before is that the pink antifreeze that is used to winterize the water system if not completely removed can rival the sanitation smell. People will often end up with gallons of the stuff in the bilge and expect that the bilge pumps will take care of it.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by peghall

Flexible PVC is nothing like hard PVC. Flex PVC schedule 148 is cheap thin-walled plastic hose that's highly odor permeable that boat builders used for decades when marine toilets could be flushed directly overboard. It stank then too, but that was just considered to be a part of owning a boat that had a toilet. Nothing else suitable for sanitation use was available when it became necessary in the mid-late '80s to have holding tanks, giving rise to what I was told by marine industry pros when I became desperate to eliminate the odor on our first boat big enough to have a toilet: "boat toilets stink, holding tanks stink worse."

But that began to change in the '90s...better and better hoses including double walled rubber hoses that mfrs could warranty against odor permeation for 5 years instead of just 1 year began to show up on the market, and have continued to evolve into hoses that have proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant, making it unnecessary to resort to using hard PVC that often requires a lot of in-line unions and other fittings because it doesn't bend at all. Raritan's SaniFlex hose originally had only 5 yr warranty, but after 10+ years without a single reported or even anecdotal odor permeation failure, they increased their warranty to 10 years, which is the average working life of ANY hose on a boat, making it unnecessary to have to resort to using hard PVC to have odor free sanitation plumbing. Unfortunately boat builders continue to use flex PVC #148 because it's the cheapest and usually--but not always--outlasts its 1 year warranty, giving rise to comments like your " Hoses? Stick with them if they are what you want in your boat and good luck."

Btw...if you actually used nominal 2" pipe (hoses and piping are always sized using their INNER diameter, you must have had to use reducing adapters to connect it to your toilet(s), tank(s), thru-hulls, any y-valves and/or tank discharge pumps, 'cuz the hose fittings on all of them are sized for 1.5" ID (inner diameter) hose or pipe. That's a LOT of unions that should not have been necessary. Glad you're happy with it.

--Peggie

Peggy,
You are mistaken in the belief that rigid houshold pvc plumbing pipe needs a lot of extra fittings, it does not. If you use 1.5" you can (and should) reduce the number of fittings by heat forming to follow the run where possible. It is relatively easy to do with a heat gun and a bit of practice and of course it is a big plus that so many different fittings such as gentle curve elbows and unions are so easily available locally for short money. When you actually understand how to use these materials you don't end up with any more fittings and those you do use are glued together so are far less likely to leak when compared to hose pushed on to hose barbs. The strategic use of unions makes it easier to dismantle the system if you should need to and unions are a well engineered product with reliable seals. It is much easier than removing stiff hose from hose barbs, often in areas where you can not apply much force.

[ParL]

Originally Posted by peghall

I failed to notice that you aren't in the US and unfortunately "MSD" portapotties don't exist in Europe. But easy enough to turn any portapotty or cassette toilet into one if you're handy enough to use a hole saw on a power drill:

The Uniseal is essentially just a rubber grommet. The sizes you'd need are small and lightweight enough to be airmailed from the US in a padded envelope. Sanitation hose is readily available in the UK and/or (I THINK) Denmark.... just be sure to get the size that mates to your deck pumpout fitting. A few hose clamps would be the only other things you'd need.

This made my life so much easier!



Well, they do sell a pump-out adapter (https://www.seasea.se/t%C3%B6mningsr%C3%B6r-till-4578) which appears to be the missing detail (correct?). So my plan is the Dometic 976 and the kit. Then there will be hoses and a pump-out fitting on deck (we are very much banned from pumping out into either the lake or the Baltic, and the ISO:8099:2000 fitting appears to be the standard).



Your book is on order, but it appears to be one (38mm?, I'll measure before ordering hose) for the waste and a smaller (19mm?) one for air, presumably with some sort of went-cap to avoid filling things up with rainwater.

[peghall]

I don't think you want to use that pumpout adapter...too many 90s, where all you need is just a piece of PVC pipe that's long enough to touch the bottom of the inside of the tank with enough sticking out above the top of the tank to attach a hose to it that will go the deck pumpout fitting.

As for the vent..Putting a cap on it will cause the tank to become pressurized...so definitely NOT what you want to do! The boat previously had a holding tank so there should already be a thru-hull high on the hull that only needs a vent fitting on it. If the previous tank vented out the deck, I recommend you install (consult a pro if necessary) one in the hull.

If we need more discussion, let's move the conversation to a Private Message (PM). From there we can move it to email to allow us to exchange attachments if necessary.

--Peggie

[Andrew Lippman]

I used detergent in my holding tanks and flushed a few times. That gets the tank clean. I also changed the hoses and Y-valves. I used the best ones you can buy. Ultimately, I replaced the Y-valves also. It took a while for the smell to disappear but ultimately it pretty much did.

The buildup in the pipes is impossible to remove. It is solidified from the urine and salt water. For the best results, flush with fresh water instead, if you can afford it. If you are dumping overboard, flush all the urine out.

I would also make sure the holding tank is well vented. It is the anaerobic bacteria that smells the worst.

It goes without saying that you should check the Y-valves and venting loops for leaks.

Not sure bleach is a good idea on a boat. Hell on woodwork and not so good for the pipes either.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by dr.j.levy

Hi all,

Just bought a boat that came with a 15 year old 130 litter holding tank. Sanitary plumbing never changed. It stinks It is located aft, but now the stink is spreading to the cabin. I need a plan, otherwise my wife will divorce me

Plan 1: Load it up with chlorine or bleach (I mean the full 130 litters), leave it there for a few days. Pump it out at the marine.

Plan 2: Do plan 1 and replace the sanitary plumbing pipes.

Plan 3: If plan 1 and 2 make no sense, take the deep dive into changing the entire system. Something very dirty and stinky which will take a few years off my life

Would value any suggestions, or other ideas.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers
Joel

Hoses and plastic tanks become permeable with age. Start with the hoses. I recommend Raritan Superflex. Easy to bend and fit on spigots.

If that solves the problem then leave the tank alone.

Also I assume you have checked for leaks and rebuilt the mechanics as necessary.

Make sure the vent is fully open at the hull and that the vent hose is adequate and in good repair. Many people install crappy chrome plated fuel flame arrestors as a vent port. These are too small and the internal screen is easy to become blocked.