Frigomar air con views?

[HKTim]

Does anyone have experience with the stand alone version of these air cons. Technology is a bit different so compressor does not cycle on and off like on an air con like Cruisair. Company literature says air con will work at water temp of up to 40 degrees Celsius vs 32 at Cruisair. Is this just marketing or is there something superior about the design. Interested if the Frigomar units are:

1. More energy efficient
2. More effective at cooling
3. Quieter

Thanks


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[got cake]

I just installed Frigomar. We used the 597, 598 and 599 stand alone units and used a separate pump for each unit. I can tell you that they are very quiet. Quietness and comfort is further enhanced by the fact that they run at reduced speed and also that they are not constantly cycling on and off.

As far as the energy efficiency, you can try to evaluate/guestimate. Don't miss the fact that the water recirc pumps will run continuously. Put the cost of that in the debit column and in the credit column, put the savings of not having the high amp draw on startup for both the pump and the aircon unit each time it cycles on. You can also put the efficiency of the brushless DC motors in the credit column.

You ask if it is more effective at cooling? Well, I think that effectiveness is a matter of having the BTU required for the job. If you have the BTU needed, it should cool effectively. One thing to think of is that any energy efficient home refrigerator these days uses variable speed rather than the off/on cycling that most marine A/C units use. Don't forget that these units eliminate the high startup loads that conventional A/C units pull. Very nice for your generator, inverters or shore power breaker.

For me, I went with it and am happy that I did. I suppose that I will see how good a choice it was over the coming years.

BTW, look at Koolaire pumps. Best recirc pump out there IMHO

[HKTim]

Thanks. Very helpful.



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[poiu]

I think these are the best specification units out there and I was thinking of changing to them. Inverter units are standard in buildings and far superior. These are the only marine inverter unit makers.

There is no mention in the specs of how low they go, i.e what is the minimum amp draw. The small one has a 3.4A max. What do you think it is at a minimum after allowing for pump power?

[got cake]

I think that there is an error in the specs posted by Frigomar on their site. The units were first available as 230/50hz only and more recently released with the 115 volt option. All my units are 230/50.
If you compare the power draw on the 597 or 598 NT to the NT-A 115 volt versions you will see that they show the same amp draw. So, for any of you that are in the 115v world be advised not to rely on the amp draw shown on the website. Go to the spec sheet instead where the information looks to be correct. Here is the link:

http://www.frigomar.com/images/PDF/F...tainedUnit.pdf

In the spec sheet they had previously, they showed wattage draw at various power levels. For instance, on the 597 NT they showed wattage at 70, 50 and 35 hz as 560, 355 and 245. So a 230 volt unit would have a draw of 1.1 amps when running at the lowest speed of 35 hz.

BTW at this point I should mention that I thought that I would have an option to set the units to run in the ECO mode. So far, that seems not to be the case. You set the desired temperature and the unit comes on and slowly spools up to full speed and runs there until the temperature is made. It then modulates down to find a speed that maintains the temperature.

The chart below show water requirement in cubic meters per hour and pressure drop in the condenser in meters. Just try to find the pressure drop in the condenser of any marine A/C unit. Without it you are just guessing on pump size. After making all the calculations, I determined that the Koolair PM500 was a suitable pump for the 597 running at 50hz (at 60hz it's perfect for the 598). The pump draws only 37 watts.

So, finally an answer to the question. Lowest speed on the smallest unit 597NT looks like 245 watts plus pump 37 watts for a total of 282 watts. 2,5 amps at 115v or 1.25 at 230v

SELF-CONTAINED UNITS REQUIREMENTS- first two numbers are water flow requirement minimum and maximum in cubic meters per hour. Second two numbers show the pressure dropfor min and max flow in the condenser cooling coil in meters of head.

597NT - 10 kBTU/h 0.6 - 1 - 1.3 - 3
598NT - 16 kBTU/h 1 - 1.2 - 4.2 - 6
599NT - 27 kBTU/h 1.2 - 1.3 - 7.2 - 8


Another BTW for anyone considering these Frigomar units. From what I can see, the 597 is the same unit as the 598 except that it has a smaller condenser and cooling coil and is limited to run at 70 hz as opposed to the 100 hz that the 598 NT will run at. The 598 will spool down to very close to the lowest setting of the 597. I'd suggest getting the 598 unless you have some very compelling reason to go with the 597.

[sailnow2011]

Interesting tech, but how long have they been in the marine world?

I am also curious how 5 amps if going to produce 16,000BTU or if that is some sort of burst spec?

[got cake]

The 5 amp draw is at 230v. If you are 115v it would be closer to 10 amps. Pretty similar to any other unit when running full speed.

[sailnow2011]

598 NT-A
Any idea what the price is on this one?

[got cake]

Can't say what the pricing would be but when I bought, I found the price to be competetive with other options.
I have not said it yet but will now say that in my opinion the inverter technology is vastly superior and should revolutionize the way we look at marine A/C

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by got cake

Can't say what the pricing would be but when I bought, I found the price to be competetive with other options.

So what price did you pay and for what model?

[got cake]

They were part of a new build so I don't know what the actual cost of the aircon was. When deciding whether to use Frigomar, I compared list price to the list price of other manufacturers and found them to be similar.

[poiu]

Thanks got cake. Great info.

To improve these units they should make a smaller BTU version as even the 10,000BTU unit at 45% output is higher than all my cabins need. I will still have cycling compressors with their smallest units.

Also, the water pumps should be inverter controlled too. I can see the cost/benefit does not work here though most of the time.

I realise it is too late for you and your installation, but Iwaki make great pumps and they use 1/4 to 1/3 less power than March pumps. Quiet too. That is what I will be replacing mine with.

I would like to see a split unit at 10,000 BTU or lower so the compressor can be outside of the sleeping areas and even quieter. Often I have only 1 or two cabins occupied and so need in total only 5,000 to 8,000 BTU at night. They only do a 42,000, which is way more than needed.

[spottsvillle]

Originally Posted by got cake

I just installed Frigomar. We used the 597, 598 and 599 stand alone units and used a separate pump for each unit. I can tell you that they are very quiet. Quietness and comfort is further enhanced by the fact that they run at reduced speed and also that they are not constantly cycling on and off.



As far as the energy efficiency, you can try to evaluate/guestimate. Don't miss the fact that the water recirc pumps will run continuously. Put the cost of that in the debit column and in the credit column, put the savings of not having the high amp draw on startup for both the pump and the aircon unit each time it cycles on. You can also put the efficiency of the brushless DC motors in the credit column.



You ask if it is more effective at cooling? Well, I think that effectiveness is a matter of having the BTU required for the job. If you have the BTU needed, it should cool effectively. One thing to think of is that any energy efficient home refrigerator these days uses variable speed rather than the off/on cycling that most marine A/C units use. Don't forget that these units eliminate the high startup loads that conventional A/C units pull. Very nice for your generator, inverters or shore power breaker.



For me, I went with it and am happy that I did. I suppose that I will see how good a choice it was over the coming years.



BTW, look at Koolaire pumps. Best recirc pump out there IMHO

Where did you purchase your units? I'm having a problem finding dealers.

Thanks
Norm


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[spottsvillle]

I contacted Frigomar through their website more than a month ago. They forwarded my request to a dealer in Fort Lauderdale. They emailed me the same info on the website but when I asked for a price for the 24000BTU self contained unit delivered to me I have never heard back from them. Sent two email Again asking for a price, to date they still have not replied. I have moved on....In my opinion they are not yet ready for the US market.

Norm

[zupa]

Any updates on the Frigomar A/C units? How has your experience been?

I'm thinking about buying them for my boat but I was told the company went ghost and only has a one-year warranty? How true is that?