Fridge and freizer trouble shooting

[k9spud]

Hi I am having problems with both.
Freizer is a salt water cooled veco superfrigomatic wbd50f with 400f evaporatore.
It's running continously and not cycling on and off.even with thermostat turned to just under 0 degrees Celsius. And less than a third of evaporator icing up.

Fridge is a salt water cooled veco wbd35f with a 200f evaporator.
Compressor runs and gets warm.
Doesn't cool the evaporator at all.
Small lines runnin into the saltwater cooling pipes don't get warm.

Tests performed
Power supply to both good at 12.8 volts.
All conections are clean.
Briged between thermostat posts (no change)
Led installed between small + and 2nd post below (didn't light up at allon either compressor )
Check led is working (it is)
Any advise on what to check before installing more gas.
As I understand I need to check all other options first.

Good advise on gassing in previous post

[k9spud]

More tests done
Bd50 drawing 4.9 amps
Bd35 drawing 1.8 amps
Salt water pump drawing 0.5 amps from each to pump controller

[ErikFinn]

While waiting for the pros to chime in have a look here:

Kollmann Marine

Not a big fan of water cooled systems but did both frdg and freezer develop these issues at same time? If so you might want to check the salt water cooled condenser or whay the heck its called, for any marine growth.

In any case refrain from doing anything destructive before you get better advice.

Cheers,

Erik

[ColdEH]

You have to think, if you need to add refrigerant , where did the the old refrigerant go ??

How old are the systems ?

Has anyone touched the refrigerant charge or attached gauges ?

Do you hear any noise from the plates? Like a gurgling or hissing sound ?

Also , what speeds do you have them set at , there should be a speed board on the superfrigomatic. Sound like your BD35 is running at low speed .

Regards

[sailon46]

Had the same problems and fixed it by cleaning the intake sea water pump filter.
Ernie on the Mary Jane

[ColdEH]

Originally Posted by ErikFinn

While waiting for the pros to chime in have a look here:

Kollmann Marine

Not a big fan of water cooled systems but did both frdg and freezer develop these issues at same time? If so you might want to check the salt water cooled condenser or whay the heck its called, for any marine growth.

In any case refrain from doing anything destructive before you get better advice.

Cheers,

Erik

I agree. as you know Erik , Im not a fan of water cooled systems either.
Water cooling seems to always invite problems .

Regards

[Elie]

Can it be simply that your refrigerant is gone?. A leak somewhere on the line or de condenser?.

[Martin S]

Most likely is loss or partial loss of refrigerant. Having an expert recharge the system is not expensive but finding the leak might be more problematic.
I recently had a similar issue and the leak was in the tube connecting the compressor to the cold plate. I am told other leaks can occur around o-ring seals.

[MIRELOS]

the first thing I check is the filter from the salt water intake, I've changed them to grakos so I can see through the glass when they need cleaning

[k9spud]

Thanks for the feed back.
My first thoughts were to regass .but after looking at kollmann site,I realized I need all other causes first.
Eric
I have been away from boat for 4 months.
All was working OK apart from both not cycling .
In that time sea strainer blocked up.
That has been cleaned and lines flushed
On bd50 small lines going into cooling pipe one is hot and coming out its cool.
On bd35 both cool.

Typoon
Age un known my gess wold be apron 12 years.
I have gone overy every where I can reach with soapy water and tooth brush,can't find any leaks.

Bd50
there is a epoxy patch on the evaporator ,this was there when I brought the boat 4 years ago.

Bd35
A larger evaporator was installed about 2 years ago.
It would fully ice up including a small part of three return line.

Speeds
Bd50 speed board set to 3500 no noticeable change with this removed and jumper wire installed.
Bd35 has no speed board there is no nocible change with jumper wire installed.
Thanks
Spud

[ColdEH]

Sounds like your amps are correct for your speeds.

things I suspect,.... the repair on the BD50 system has given you a partially blocked cap tube. Little bits from the repair have gotten all the way back over time to your evaporator and given you a blockage at the cap tube. . Remember amps won't go up because compressor is being starved . You may have a slow leak and if that is true it would respond to a slight recharge. But I suspect a block .

Are you getting any sound from that plate ?

The BD35 , sounds like you may have a pin hole in your condenser, salt water will cause corrosion over time you may have lost refrigerant. 12 years sounds about right .

Now maybe a good time to attach a low side gauge on each. They do not have a service ports on the high side unless someone has installed one over time. If you do , tell us the readings.

Im not Richard kollmann but I have monkeyed around with this stuff for quite a few years and build my own systems .

Either way it may be time to look at new units . Probably cheaper then trying to get a repair done and then it fails again . These things are crazy sensitive to any dirt in the system . Trying to clean inside the pipe is nearly impossible , One little speck of dirt that eventually will work its way back to the cap tube and block it again!. Also any moisture in the system will create acids when mixed with R134a and eats the system out from the inside .

I hope I am of some help,

There is nothing worse then losing you refrigeration system when you are out" there". Loss of your food and no way to keep new stuff cold . And of course the challenge of finding a service guy in the middle of nowhere .Thats why I build my own.

Regards

[Symphony]

please post the solution or outcome when you cure the problem

[Rorzech]

[QUOTE=typhoon;2283324]Sounds like your amps are correct for your speeds.

things I suspect,.... the repair on the BD50 system has given you a partially blocked cap tube. Little bits from the repair have gotten all the way back over time to your evaporator and given you a blockage at the cap tube. . Remember amps won't go up because compressor is being starved . You may have a slow leak and if that is true it would respond to a slight recharge. But I suspect a block .

Are you getting any sound from that plate ?

The BD35 , sounds like you may have a pin hole in your condenser, salt water will cause corrosion over time you may have lost refrigerant. 12 years sounds about right .

Now maybe a good time to attach a low side gauge on each. They do not have a service ports on the high side unless someone has installed one over time. If you do , tell us the readings.

Im not Richard kollmann but I have monkeyed around with this stuff for quite a few years and build my own systems .

Either way it may be time to look at new units . Probably cheaper then trying to get a repair done and then it fails again . These things are crazy sensitive to any dirt in the system . Trying to clean inside the pipe is nearly impossible , One little speck of dirt that eventually will work its way back to the cap tube and block it again!. Also any moisture in the system will create acids when mixed with R134a and eats the system out from the inside .

I hope I am of some help,

There is nothing worse then losing you refrigeration system when you are out" there". Loss of your food and no way to keep new stuff cold . And of course the challenge of finding a service guy in the middle of nowhere .Thats why I build my own.

Regards[/QUOTE

Epoxy patch tells me you have an aluminum evaporator. Don't ever pick at it. What I would do is buy one of those 4 oz cans of 134A Leak Stop with a short applicator hose. Puncture it. the shrader in the hose should hold the gas in the can. Tap the hose shrader to purge a little air from the hose. attach it to suction side and turn the valve on and shoot it in slowly. Read instructions on the can. If you get frost back on suction line,then bleed shredder on suction line 5 seconds and let stand for two minutes. repeat as many times as you need to to back off the frost.This could take you an hour. If you try taking any short cuts you will fail. Then you'll be in a pickle.Keep a spare can with you . they're only 10 bucks. Good luck.

[ErikFinn]

Just a few thoughts:
-epoxy fix on the evaporator suggests there was a leak before. Once you have a pinhole leak on an aluminum evaporator due to corrosion its just a matter of time until you get new ones, "whack-a-mole". I would consider replacing, 12 years old is quite ok age for this equipment. Compressors should last longer but if you have contamination in the circuit re-using the old compressor might spell shorter life for other new parts.

I do remember on few occasions people have returned to the boat after a period of absence and found the fridge not cooling anymore. If I recall correctly the reason being absence of oil for the varios seals in the circuit (as the fridge had been turned off) and the seals thus becoming hard and starting to leak.
If yours were turned off for 4 months this is a possibility.

While You may not have much to lose by applying stop leak, this is what mr Kollmann says:

" 5. Adding 134a with Stop Leak
Is it ok to use refrigerant with stop leak included? I am in a remote location if Africa and I can't get pure refrigerant without stop leak in it.
Thanks!
Answer: Stop leak mixed in refrigerant reacts with air and moisture in the air (humidity) to form a solid, polysiloxane (epoxy) seal at site of a leak. Leak Stop also incorporates an active ingredient that rejuvenates the seals, gaskets and O-rings in the A/C system.
I would not recommend adding refrigerant from a stop leak can, as it might add additional oil or sealant, either one of these may permanently block refrigerant capillary tube. There are two types of refrigerant stop leak solutions one has an active ingredient that rejuvenates the seals, gaskets and O-rings and the other reacts with air and moisture to form a solid epoxy. Any solvent that softens seals may affect compressor motor winding insulation."

Kollmann Marine

[k9spud]

Typhoon
Update
Before yesterday there was no sounds coming from the plate.

Bd35
Conected gages to Bd35
Readings highside 150psi lowside 0
Put in a small amount of Gass in small bursts.
Highside 275 psi low 0
Plate started to make gurgling sounds and could hear compressor start working.
High side psi dropped to about 200 psi lowside 10psi.
Evaparator started cooling and noisey
short lived psi high back up to 280 low back to 0
This repeated 4 or 5 times helped by tapping on dryer and cap coil.

Left running overnight with jumper in place of thermostat .
High 270 low -8

Conclusion blocked cap tube plan to replace cap tube and dryer or compete 200f Evaparator.
And vac oUT and regas
Sound right????