Do all toilets require holding tanks.

[a64pilot]

LEO is law enforcement officer.
I think the US LEO obsession with heads is largely as an excuse to board you and look around, plus its a way to make people leave.
I have head of middle of the night and very early morning toilet inspections in areas where the homeowners complain about anchored boats.
Most get the message they aren’t welcome and move on I’d assume.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

BP, have you ever heard of any Canadian LEO checking boats for their heads?

isn't that what I said .... I've never heard of them checking.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You left out the part of the law which states that it’s OK to lock off the seacock of the toilet not is use.

.

Can you point to where it says that in the regulations?

[Kita]

Originally Posted by Exile

Environmental awareness doesn't always comport with rules & regs that are necessarily good for the environment. There are apparently no rules requiring holding tanks in EU countries, for example. Direct discharge is apparently acceptable & normal in the Med and the Caribbean.

Another thread going on this here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...de-207416.html

Btw, one of the posts on maybe the last page says that Annapolis is considering a ban on composting toilets. I had thought it was pretty well settled that, whatever the pros & cons, composting waste was subject to the same discharge rules but posed little if any threat if winding up in a dumpster.

I bought a boat with a composting toilet & need all the information I can get...who should I chat with? US coast guard?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I see you are in Minnesota ... In the Great Lakes under the Joint Commission, state and provincial laws require there be no physical connection between head/holding tank and any overboard discharge fitting. Locks or ties don't cut it. Incredibly, few water LEO's in US waters know this and I've never heard of a Canadian LEO knowing or ever checking.

He's on the Mississippi one marina down the river from me. It's 800 river miles to Lake Michigan, or 200 miles overland on a trailer to Lake Superior.

[peghall]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Can you point to where it says that in the regulations?

§ 159.7 Requirements for vessel operators.
(a) No person may operate any vessel equipped with installed toilet facilities unless it is equipped with:
(1) An operable Type II or III device that has a label on it under § 159.16 or that is certified under § 159.12 or § 159.12a; or
(2) An operable Type I device that has a label on it under § 159.16 or that is certified under § 159.12, if the vessel is 19.7 meters (65 feet) or less in length.
(b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of treated or untreated sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include -
(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the closed position; or
(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock.
(c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include -
(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;
(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or
(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.



----

In the Great Lakes under the Joint Commission, state and provincial laws require there be no physical connection between head/holding tank and any overboard discharge fitting. Locks or ties don't cut it. Incredibly, few water LEO's in US waters know this and I've never heard of a Canadian LEO knowing or ever checking.


That only applies to Lake Champlain, not all of the Great Lakes...and it's actually a NY state law that's unenforceable against transient vessels because Lake Champlain is a navigable interstate waterway under the jurisdiction of the USCG. However, they've done such a good job of selling the idea that none of the "loopers" are willing to risk being the one to return to NY to challenge it in court, so they all comply. But none of 'em have ever been inspected so we'll never know.



--Peggie

[peghall]

If you read "purpose of regulations" under Chapter 1, you'll see that it doesn't apply to recreational vessels:


§ 24.01-1 Purpose of regulations.
The purpose of the regulations in this subchapter is to set forth uniform minimum requirements for uninspected commercial vessels, certain motor vessels, vessels propelled by sail carrying passengers for hire, and barges carrying passengers for hire.



--Peggie

[peghall]

Composters are a CG certified Type III (receives and retains but does not discharge waste from toilets etc....)...no state or local gov't can ban them aboard vessels, but they can dictate what can and can't be disposed of on their property. So it sounds like the city of Annapolis has had enough of the owners filling up their dumpsters with human waste that isn't even close to becoming compost yet (a process that actually takes months, not just a couple of weeks) and badly aimed urine jugs in their public rest rooms.



--Peggie

[Exile]

Originally Posted by keithw88

What is a LEO?
As a moral point: surely no-one should ever think they can pump raw sewage into someone else's back yard?
Treat it, or get well offshore..

Ask the EU, and all the countries surrounding the Med & Caribbean.

[keithw88]

The EU countries forbid disposal of lavatory waste within 12 miles of thie coastlines, which seems reasonable . That rule is widely ignored by our fraternity, but I really hope that the vast number of ferries and cruise ships do not dump any such waste in the Med at all.
I am in the Med, and away fromlarge citiesthe water is usually beautifully clear; plastic waste, though is a big problem in some areas

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Kita

I bought a boat with a composting toilet & need all the information I can get...who should I chat with? US coast guard?

here ya go

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by peghall

Composters are a CG certified Type III (receives and retains but does not discharge waste from toilets etc....)...no state or local gov't can ban them aboard vessels, but they can dictate what can and can't be disposed of on their property. So it sounds like the city of Annapolis has had enough of the owners filling up their dumpsters with human waste that isn't even close to becoming compost yet (a process that actually takes months, not just a couple of weeks) and badly aimed urine jugs in their public rest rooms.



--Peggie

perhaps they should stop allowing drunk guys use the public heads then.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Exile

applicable There are apparently no rules requiring holding tanks in EU countries, for example. Direct discharge is apparently acceptable & normal in the Med and the Caribbean.

I don't know of any EU country that requires a holding tank but most forbids direct discharge in their waters. A rule that us often ignored and lots of old boats don't have a holding tank.
The only EU country I'm aware of that allows toilet discharge is UK where it's legal in tidal waters.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by keithw88

The EU countries forbid disposal of lavatory waste within 12 miles of thie coastlines, which seems reasonable . That rule is widely ignored by our fraternity, but I really hope that the vast number of ferries and cruise ships do not dump any such waste in the Med at all.
I am in the Med, and away fromlarge citiesthe water is usually beautifully clear; plastic waste, though is a big problem in some areas

Originally Posted by Anders

I don't know of any EU country that requires a holding tank but most forbids direct discharge in their waters. A rule that us often ignored and lots of old boats don't have a holding tank.
The only EU country I'm aware of that allows toilet discharge is UK where it's legal in tidal waters.

I wasn't aware there was a EU reg on this, so thanks. The anecdotal reports from cruisers I've read confirms that the reg is widely ignored. Forbidding direct discharge but not requiring holding tanks seems incompatible, but it also sounds like a non-issue in terms of environmental impact.

[Lepke]

I winter on a salmon river. Sometimes there are hundreds of sport fishermen out. Besides urinating over the side, the last thing they do is dump their porta-potty in the river before putting their boat on the trailer. I never seem to have a camera ready, but I'm working on it.
I use an Incinolet. No plumbing, just a vent. On a bigger boat, a decent inverter and battery bank will run it.