Crap. Just broke toilet. Groco EB model. Lever forced.

[GreenMM]

Pretty much as title says.
Applied too much force to left side (as seated) pump out lever.
Felt resistance and then crack!
Now free spins.
What to do? Just, like, hold it in or take Imodium 24/7. Haha. Ah not funny.

[GreenMM]

And I did unbolt the left lever handle and checked the small metal key and it's still intact. The lever was still clamped tight and able to spin the pump shaft it was connected to.
And this pump shaft was able to slip out about an inch and a half by hand and was pretty loose down there.
Called Groco - and really nice tech spoke w me and said it's likely the key broke in that pump shaft (it's not - it's intact when I checked it out), or the pump shaft itself broke somewhat due to age.
Anyone have thoughts on this?

[peghall]

Called Groco - and really nice tech spoke w me and said it's likely the key broke in that pump shaft (it's not - it's intact when I checked it out), or the pump shaft itself broke somewhat due to age.
Anyone have thoughts on this?

Surely you're conversation with the "really nice tech" didn't end there... So what else did he have to offer....what did he advise you to do?

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[HopCar]

There are two keys on that shaft. One in the cast bronze arm that the handle plugs into and one inside the crank assembly inside the toilet. It's the one in the crank assembly that fails. More likely the shaft has failed at the key slot.
Go to the Groco website and look at the exploded view. It's the #36 key that I'm talking about.
GROCO MARINE PRODUCTS If this doesn't take you to the drawing, click on "service manuals"


You're going to have to take it apart to fix it. That's a good toilet. It's worth the effort.

[peghall]

Fwiw, Groco discontinued the EB about 10 years ago. Rebuild kits are still available, but I don't know what else. It IS/was an excellent toilet...an all bronze work horse designed and built to last 50+ years. The Model K--also an excellent all bronze "throne" with a price tag of over $1000--and the compact HF are the only toilets Groco makes now.

[GreenMM]

Excellent info! Thanks for the info, MUCH appreciated.
The parts diagram I had (was ON the boat included in large original owner's manuals binder) does not show an internal key on that shaft, but if there is one there that's VERY helpful info to know and makes me feel better about tearing into it

The tech said that all parts are available still for the EB, that it was discontinued circa 1996 I think he mentioned, and the largest parts - the bowl and the huge flange parts are the only ones not available.

He said I could order the shaft kit with key for $46 and that local dealers should probably have the parts and maybe even at a better discount.
I saw West Marine sells the kit for same price with a 2-3 week ship to store order time - they are probably getting it straight from Groco in Maryland like I could in that case.

[HopCar]

Green, I'm pretty sure that the EB uses the same bowl as the K. The K is still being made so the bowl should be available. I may be wrong about that. If they are available, they are expensive so don't over tighten the bolts and break yours when you reassemble it.

If you'd like I can check on Monday and see if I can save you a couple of bucks on the parts.

[GreenMM]

Thanks for the tip on reassembly.
I'm going to try to tear it down tomorrow and hope to somehow have it fixed by the weekend - but that's probably being far too hopeful without parts on hand.

I should be at least able to get it apart to try to see what let go. Thanks for offer about checking out parts - I have to see what it's like when I get in there and what the schedule is on this boat. It heads into the water on Tuesday.

[GreenMM]

It was the outer key in the shaft that was intact. I will have to try to see if the inner one broke off.

Aha! HopCar - You're right, well done! I do now finally see this 2nd key - it must be oriented 'down' which is why it doesn't really show up in my exploded diagram.
This would make almost perfect sense that the key or shaft is broken there, and why it swings freely now.
Will be doing the tear down later this afternoon and will post what I find.

Thanks again HopCar and all!!!

[GreenMM]

Hi.
Ok, so finally fought the good fight and got it out (many sheared / rounded bolts later and much swearing - my throat is hoarse).
Split apart the upper and bottom castings held together with 'shitty' flathead (???!!?) screws and immediately found the problem.
I sheared the bronze (pump) shaft in two.
Rest of it looks ok aside from the many destroyed sorry ass looking bolts (who's laughing now?)
I don't think we are going to bother to put a rebuild kit in, it looks 'ok' to me and functional.

Bolts!:
Can I use stainless or what? Do I need to find weak ass bronze hardware only?
Apparently this Rolls Royce quality crapper castings are all bronze.

Hello galvanic corrosion?
Thoughts?

(And thanks to this terrific forum!!)

[sailnow2011]

check out the freshhead.

[HopCar]

In this application I don't think you'd have a problem using stainless bolts. If you're worried about it use bronze washers as a sacrifical barrier. Another thing you can do is grease the stainless bolts with Tef Gel.

You mentioned flat head screws. Did you mean round head screws which have flat bottoms? It's been twenty years or more since I worked on an EB but I seem to remember round head slotted screws. I always replaced them with hex head bolts.

[GreenMM]

Thanks again hopcar!
Correct slotted not Phillips. Rounded tops flat bottoms.
Great will replace w stainless
And may reuse bronze washers.
And yeah Bolts vs slotted soft bronze. Bolts win !

[GreenMM]

Really easy repair. This toilet is so brilliantly simple. I'm impressed.
Only tricky bit was getting the actual new pump shaft back in as it has a little half inserted key in it's keyway and it's difficult to line it all up and get the shaft in.
I wound up gently prying the stuck on sealed diaphragm unit and trying to align the arm (with the key in it) to the shaft in just the right orientation and gently slide it on. It seemed impossible or by chance but it went in fairly quickly once I got serious about it. And this was on a rocking boat, just before a squall hit us pretty good today.

As advised, I did over tighten any of the bolts. I will see if there are any tiny leaks.
I installed 7 new stainless steel slotted screw bolts into the base, and had to tap (as in a tap and die kit) 4 of the holes and chase out the nearly fused in bronze and grime. The bronze bolts were something close to welded together. And the holes were far too small to cram a new bolt in. I also cross threaded one of them, which is why I insisted we tap out the other ones before they got destroyed.
Otherwise easy peasy stuff.