Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2021, 04:01   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Hello dear Sailors,

I'm an fairly new owner of a Beneteau Sense 43 (2011) and came back to the moored boat after a few days on the road and found the head shower and area with the evacuation drain for the shower full of saltwater (~20 liters).

Normally I close all the valves but of course this time I did not (forgot the ones in the head)

I wonder how saltwater can come into the shower tub any other then via the evacuation opening on the bottom. Checked the system and found it highly unlikely with the pipe layout and pump etc in between ... all I could find was the evacuation felt a little clogged (cleared it).

Maybe someone can share his experience and bring some light into what might have happened.

Thanks for reading.
Harald
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 05:51   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 395
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

That does sound strange. I assume your head uses raw water from outside? The only possibility that comes to mind is a mechanical/electrical problem that caused the toilet to keep picking up water and overflowing out of the bowl. But I am far from an expert here.
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 06:57   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
tkeithlu's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Carrabelle, Florida
Boat: Fiberglas shattering 44' steel trawler
Posts: 3,096
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Welcome to the forum, doschhar.

The shower pan is below the waterline, so you don't have to siphon water, right?

From the description, the gray water discharge is below the waterline, so there is a source. How about reverse through the discharge pump and up the drain to the shower pan? We're talking about a slow leak (thankfully; you diodn't find your boat hanging by the mooring lines), so a defect in the gray water stopcock would do the job.

I could be completely wrong; I'm just trying to produce some hypotheses you can test. Consider all the ways seawater can get into the boat. The water is coming in through one of them. Which are connected to the place the water went (the shower pan)? What is the route in each case? Remember that pumps are not seals- water can go backwards through vane and centrifugal pumps.

In the meantime, consider a leave-the-boat checklist, and check frequently until you find this sucker.
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know that you are in a hurry.
tkeithlu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 07:22   #4
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Potomac/Chesapeake
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 395
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

This question could probably get a better answer in the plumbing and fixtures forum.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/
Rohan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 07:28   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Wink Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
This question could probably get a better answer in the plumbing and fixtures forum.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f115/
Thanks for the advice - lets see if I can move the post over there.
Hmm, unfortunately I can not move or deleete this post anymore.

Not sure if opening up multiple posts is a good idea either.

If an admin reads this please move this thread over
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 07:37   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
Welcome to the forum, doschhar.

The shower pan is below the waterline, so you don't have to siphon water, right?

From the description, the gray water discharge is below the waterline, so there is a source. How about reverse through the discharge pump and up the drain to the shower pan? We're talking about a slow leak (thankfully; you diodn't find your boat hanging by the mooring lines), so a defect in the gray water stopcock would do the job.

I could be completely wrong; I'm just trying to produce some hypotheses you can test. Consider all the ways seawater can get into the boat. The water is coming in through one of them. Which are connected to the place the water went (the shower pan)? What is the route in each case? Remember that pumps are not seals- water can go backwards through vane and centrifugal pumps.

In the meantime, consider a leave-the-boat checklist, and check frequently until you find this sucker.
Yeah the only source is the head which needs electricity to run (boat was powerless) or backwards through the shower evacuation pluming. Not sure if the stopcock is normally back flow protected somehow. And yes the tub is below the waterline but water would need to get up about 1m - down through the pump and to the water outlet in the tub ... pretty long way and pretty big line ...
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 07:41   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
That does sound strange. I assume your head uses raw water from outside? The only possibility that comes to mind is a mechanical/electrical problem that caused the toilet to keep picking up water and overflowing out of the bowl. But I am far from an expert here.
Checked - but pump runs with electricity and boat was powerless. Also bowl was not full of water ... looked normal.
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 09:41   #8
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,455
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Although sink drain thru-hulls are almost always below waterline on sailboats--and there are always seacocks on them, I've never seen a shower sump discharge thru-hull that was below the waterline even on a sailboat, 'cuz sea water would rise in the discharge line to the boat's waterline unless there's also a seacock on that thru-hull--which would be very unusual--or there is one that's left open except when in use. If the waterline is higher than the shower pan, that would account for the seawater flood in the head.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2021 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 09:57   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
I've never seen a shower sump discharge thru-hull that was below the waterline even on a sailboat, 'cuz sea water would rise in the discharge line to the boat's waterline unless there's a seacock on that thru-hull, or there is one that's left open except when in use. If the waterline is higher than the shower pan, that would account for the seawater flood in the head.


--Peggie
Well the waterline is higher than the shower pan but not higher than the head. I disconnected the shower sump discharge line after the pump and could suck saltwater back through the system (so there is no back flow protection at the seacock?!). Unfortunately I could not test to suck back water with the pump in between (need additional pipe for that) ...
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 21:23   #10
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,455
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

I don't THINK the head has anything to do with the flooding...it's coming in via the shower sump discharge and overflowing the shower pan. The seacock IS the backflow protection...keeping it closed except when the sump pump is running to empty the shower water should solve your problem.


--Peggie
__________________
© 2021 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2021, 03:06   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
I don't THINK the head has anything to do with the flooding...it's coming in via the shower sump discharge and overflowing the shower pan. The seacock IS the backflow protection...keeping it closed except when the sump pump is running to empty the shower water should solve your problem.


--Peggie
Yeah I would think so too. It still baffles me is how water can crawl up about 1 meter through a 1 1/2 inch hose, through a loop, back down through the pump and out of the shower pan. Boat was moored at port in good weather conditions.

My guess is that the hose was clogged at the seacock or outlet somehow, not fully just enough to keep the hose full of water after pumping out and starting a very slow flow back through the entire system. The shower pan rim being higher then the waterline (I guess can't really measure) - maybe by design or pure luck stopped the back flow and saved the boat from filling up with water lowering the sump even more and starting a devils circle of eventually sinking my boat ?!

Only explanation I can think of ...

What you think about adding an electric/magnetic seacock that closes automatically if the pump is not used. Would make me sleep much better. Without the pump running there is no reason to keep the cock open anyhow I guess?!

Thanks for reading.
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2021, 07:17   #12
Marine Service Provider
 
peghall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,455
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

What you think about adding an electric/magnetic seacock that closes automatically if the pump is not used.

I think you're asking if I approve of a device that would absolve you from assuming any hands-on responsibility for the safety of your boat (i.e. remembering to keep the seacock closed). No I don't...if for no other reason than, devices that can be ignored will be until you have to deal with the consequences of their inevitable failure.


Without the pump running there is no reason to keep the cock open anyhow I guess?


Exactly.



--Peggie
__________________
© 2021 Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since '87.
Author "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors"
peghall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2021, 10:47   #13
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 9,475
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by doschhar View Post
Yeah I would think so too. It still baffles me is how water can crawl up about 1 meter through a 1 1/2 inch hose, through a loop, back down through the pump and out of the shower pan. Boat was moored at port in good weather conditions.

My guess is that the hose was clogged at the seacock or outlet somehow, not fully just enough to keep the hose full of water after pumping out and starting a very slow flow back through the entire system. The shower pan rim being higher then the waterline (I guess can't really measure) - maybe by design or pure luck stopped the back flow and saved the boat from filling up with water lowering the sump even more and starting a devils circle of eventually sinking my boat ?!

Only explanation I can think of ...

What you think about adding an electric/magnetic seacock that closes automatically if the pump is not used. Would make me sleep much better. Without the pump running there is no reason to keep the cock open anyhow I guess?!

Thanks for reading.
A "loop" isn't going to prevent a syphon.
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2021, 12:34   #14
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 9,475
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
A "loop" isn't going to prevent a syphon.
I think your damn lucky the edge of then pan was above the water line.
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 10:19   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Re: Beneteau Sense 43 // lots of saltwater in head shower

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
What you think about adding an electric/magnetic seacock that closes automatically if the pump is not used.

I think you're asking if I approve of a device that would absolve you from assuming any hands-on responsibility for the safety of your boat (i.e. remembering to keep the seacock closed). No I don't...if for no other reason than, devices that can be ignored will be until you have to deal with the consequences of their inevitable failure.


Without the pump running there is no reason to keep the cock open anyhow I guess?


Exactly.



--Peggie

Got your point.
doschhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
beneteau, head, salt, water, shower

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'll acknowledge the elephant in the room...Full keel is dead... ssb is dead... nematon785 General Sailing Forum 270 13-09-2020 01:11
New here: lots and lots and lots of questions :) Plan D Multihull Sailboats 59 07-06-2020 05:28
New Beneteau 50' 'Sense' YADO Monohull Sailboats 15 24-10-2010 04:14

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.