Any ideas about how i can add hot water?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by riki

Hi folks.
I would like to have hot water in my only bathroom for shower. Got only manual pums and due to my small water tanks would be wise to keep it this way. Do you have any suggestions about brands/products i can use? Got 1 outboard so engine is not an option.
Cheers

I haven't read the whole thread so if this has been mentioned

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp...310&id=2785571

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by ben2go

I have mentioned the tube type solar heaters many times on this forum and they have been dismissed. They can heat water in low temps and on cloudy days. Of course their efficiency isn't as good. I'll be using them on my boat.

Yeah, of course they are not as efficient as propane and electricity, but they run all day long and even produce in low light and with cloudy sky, low temps..... and like everything solar... set it, forget it and very low maintenance
I am not a fan of the temporary or frugal solutions and on board the amps and watts in my batteries are holy. I hate everything with a propane bottle. My next step will be induction cooking but that means open heart surgery. The hot shower is a piece of cake. I can always use the engine but with the cooking
One burner is OK but now 2 or 3 or/and the oven or the Micro. That can be a hot mix. My admiral likes to cook... hahaha and I like good food. So that requires some serious meditation

[cj88]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Yeah, of course they are not as efficient as propane and electricity, but they run all day long and even produce in low light and with cloudy sky, low temps..... and like everything solar... set it, forget it and very low maintenance
I am not a fan of the temporary or frugal solutions and on board the amps and watts in my batteries are holy. I hate everything with a propane bottle. My next step will be induction cooking but that means open heart surgery. The hot shower is a piece of cake. I can always use the engine but with the cooking
One burner is OK but now 2 or 3 or/and the oven or the Micro. That can be a hot mix. My admiral likes to cook... hahaha and I like good food. So that requires some serious meditation

I was just looking at the GoSun Fusion hybrid cooker which uses solar and a vacuum tube for cooking and is supplemented by a 150W heating pad if needed for cooking on cool/cloudy days or at night. I wouldn't look at it for cooking on passage but it might be viable as a zero or low power draw option at anchor or ashore.

[ben2go]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Yeah, of course they are not as efficient as propane and electricity, but they run all day long and even produce in low light and with cloudy sky, low temps..... and like everything solar... set it, forget it and very low maintenance
I am not a fan of the temporary or frugal solutions and on board the amps and watts in my batteries are holy. I hate everything with a propane bottle. My next step will be induction cooking but that means open heart surgery. The hot shower is a piece of cake. I can always use the engine but with the cooking
One burner is OK but now 2 or 3 or/and the oven or the Micro. That can be a hot mix. My admiral likes to cook... hahaha and I like good food. So that requires some serious meditation

No propane on my boat either. Induction and convection for cooking, diesel for heating if I need it, solar for power and water heating for domestic use.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Or this one. Plugs into a 12v lighter for the pump, your tank for the propane, made for camping.

https://www.amazon.com/Hike-Crew-Por...-1-spons&psc=1

Fine if you use it in the cockpit. Must not be used inside as clearly stated in their instructions.

[Shaneesprit]

The main reason the Engine heater is not worthwhile for me is I rarely motor, probably use 10 - 15 gallons of diesel a year plus, arriving by car to the boat on a Friday night on a swing mooring.
I am hoping to make the boat use, more comfortable in the early and late season

[Pizzazz]

There are mainstream solutions and other solutions. The mainstream solution is a water heater with engine connections and an electric heating element. Everyone that I know has this setup or is in the process of getting one. If you live in warm weather you can take cold showers or do the solar bag thing. In cold weather, the engine gives you hot water, heat in the cabin and charges your batteries. Nothing gets more efficient that this. Of course, people always come up with marginal solutions and find a justification for their choice. But it is not mainstream.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

There are mainstream solutions and other solutions. The mainstream solution is a water heater with engine connections and an electric heating element. Everyone that I know has this setup or is in the process of getting one. If you live in warm weather you can take cold showers or do the solar bag thing. In cold weather, the engine gives you hot water, heat in the cabin and charges your batteries. Nothing gets more efficient that this. Of course, people always come up with marginal solutions and find a justification for their choice. But it is not mainstream.

the big issue I see here is the op has an outboard for main propulsion so heating with main is not an option except via 12 volt electric or 120v with inverter.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

the big issue I see here is the op has an outboard for main propulsion so heating with main is not an option except via 12 volt electric or 120v with inverter.

Another big issue.... with the OB also no real battery charging capacity. Unless there is a decent size of solar he better wants to watch where he is using the amps and watts. In the tropics he might get away with the frugal solution but further North where You even more appreciate warm water that will not be a mainstream solution. Only other solution besides heating water with solar that makes sense would be a Honda Gen and go electric. Would also fix the issue with batt charging etc......up to 70-80 amps

[GinTonic]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Another big issue.... with the OB also no real battery charging capacity. Unless there is a decent size of solar he better wants to watch where he is using the amps and watts. In the tropics he might get away with the frugal solution but further North where You even more appreciate warm water that will not be a mainstream solution. Only other solution besides heating water with solar that makes sense would be a Honda Gen and go electric. Would also fix the issue with batt charging etc......up to 70-80 amps

Again , I have found that the best option for your type of Sailboat is the Excel Tankless On-Demand Gas Water Heater VENTFREE – Propane (LPG) with Low Water Pressure Startup

The Excel Low Pressure Startup unit is outfitted with a magnetic water flow sensor , that allows the unit to work at low water pressure, especially those found in rural areas , RV's and Boats. STARTS WITH 2 PSI


All other tankless gas water heaters rely on the outdated rubber diaphragm scheme , that pushes a pin that actuates a microswitch.


Pressures of the order of 30 psi are needed to move the rubber diaphragm on other older and cheaper units.

THIS ONE IS THE ONLY ONE WITH ODS Vent-Free technology:

ODS is to gas what a circuit breaker is to electricity.

ODS technology originated in Europe, and has been widely used in European gas heating appliances for more than 45 years with an outstanding record of safety and then adopted by U.S. manufacturers for all vent-free gas products such as logsets and camper heaters.

Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) accident/incident data accumulated since 1980 show an unparalleled 100% safety record on ODS-equipped vent-free gas heating appliances. Industry engineers say the ODS pilot is to gas what a circuit breaker is to electricity.

I have seen them on this link:

https://excelonlinestore.com/excel-1...p-ventfree-lpg

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by riki

Hi folks.
I would like to have hot water in my only bathroom for shower. Got only manual pumps and due to my small water tanks would be wise to keep it this way. Do you have any suggestions about brands/products i can use? Got 1 outboard so engine is not an option.
Cheers

Well, with gasoline on board a propane installation is definitely the last thing I would wanna have. The FP Maldives is a small light fast cat but actually there is room for everything if planned wisely. I don´t know how You are running with budget but You are definitely at a point worth while thinking and the boat is keeping value that allows a little flexibility to make a cool upgrade that will improve life on board much further then just warm water.
So here is what I would do......
With a beam of approx 228 inch and looking at the design of the stern there is plenty of room between the 2 hulls over the dinghy to fix some decent solar power. If You don´t already have some solar panels here is my recommendation.....

Sunpower SPR-x22-360
360 W - 59,1 V - Efficiency 22,2%
61,3 inch x 41,2 inch

Sunpower SPR-x21-470
470 W - 76,2 V - Efficiencey 21,7%
81,4 inch x 41,2 inch

Yes they are expensive but they are also top and the most efficient and have the best power/space/weight ratio
As an alternative the next in line are the LG a little less and also a little cheaper and more easy to come by.
Can only visualize but with 2 panels You should get easy 600 watts or with 1 big Sunpower You have also close to 500 W.
That is more then enough for Your fridge, electronic and LED lightning.
And You still have space for some flexible solar panels

Looking at the standard kitchen block there is a 3 burner cooktop with unused space towards the back. I would install a 2 burner inductions cooktop that goes deep and not wide like for example this one with only 12 inch wide @ 1200 W each burner
https://www.amazon.com/Kenyon-B41601...%2C223&sr=8-14

So You will gain usable countertop space on the side. Next mayor improvement of this upgrade would be.... Now You can totally eliminate Your whole propane installation on board. As a bonus much less heat in the cabin in summertime and of course no more hassle with the propane bottle safety measures of the whole installation and running around for the refills.

Next find any Stainless Steel water heater AC 110 V where You can also easy change the heating element to 12 V. Once You are on the boat Your life style will dictate what is best, but for the moment You wanna be flexible until You know Your energy needs with the induction cooking.

Next in line is definitely and 100% a Honda 2200i .......

https://powerequipment.honda.com/gen...models/eu2200i

because from this moment on You will have access to all the toys and creature comfort of DC 12 V and AC 120 V. It´s light weight @ 47 Lbs+ fuel. You also have already a gasoline installation with the outboard engine. Easy to fix and maintain and You can take it home.
Of course now You wanna keep Your run time of the Honda as low as posible. Well that depends on You battery set up. You will need a bigger size house bank. With lead acid that´s a lot of weight,space but there is also the voltage sagging that You really don´t want. So to make this really a good upgrade that will require going Lithium. Now take a look here at those complete sets.

https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-12V-...dui4mdpblhc043

I would go 300-400 amp and I would also install them in a mobile box with a plug to easy take them home. The Honda will give You 70-80 amp with an AC 120 V charger. Your solar panels at average 6 hours/day @ 500 W= 3000 W or better > depending on efficiency of the solar panels.
If You run both burners of the induction cooker for 1 hour that is 2400 W. So You are almost there.

Now the water heating. Here You have several choices.
Here for example is a Mini under the sink, 2,6 gallon @ 1500 w

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079NT5HQD..._t1_B00M05ISBQ

I find this type the best solution for Your boat, 18 x 12 x 11 inch, some 10-15 lbs empty, easy, clean install and definitely... standard size heating elements.
With the 400 amp lithium battery @ weight 130 lbs You have 4,8 KW and with a 3000 W inverter Victron Mod 12/3000/120 @ 40 Lbs You are all set.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...120V-US-EN.pdf

You can handle all Your appliances as long as You don´t wanna use them all at the same time and with 1 full charge You should get comfortable through a whole day.
How much Honda run time to replace the used watts?
Well, depends on Your solar output and Your habits. Now You have all the numbers to evaluate.

Yeah things are $$$$$ adding up but now You also have a super comfortable Maldive with lots the power for all kinds of things. You could even run a 12.000 BTU AirCon with the Honda. If You wanna take it one step at the time..... start with the water heater, the induction cooktop and the Honda and Your current set up to see how far Your desires are to spend the money on the lithium and a 3000 W inverter.
Use a dual DC 300+300 W water heating element. Will go slower but You can better adapt to Your needs and can go directly of the battery without inverter. Also You don´t need 80ºC water temp which is max set point on those water heaters. With 40-50 You are OK.

Another good solution is here......
https://www.green-yachting.online/shop-1

Of course slow... they say with 300W about 50 minutes to heat 30 liters, Good thing is ... runs direct from the 12 Volt battery and also has a feature that allows You to run only once the battery is full.
Disadvantage... now You also need an Isotherm water heater and where is the space ? However with the the bigger water storage capacity You will also add to Your total water tank capacity on board.

There is also the Whale water heater 12 volt version
https://www.amazon.com/Whale-Gallon-.../dp/B00XCIJN78

which will do basically the same at 300 W but without the the special feature that allows You to use only excess power once the battery is full
Here is more info.
https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/si...rDatasheet.pdf

BUT, if You use a Victron Battery monitor You could do the same and maybe much better and more flexible with the set points mentioned here on page Nº 23-24 - 4.2.2 Relay settings

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...S-SE-PT-IT.pdf

There is still another solution to get by without propane even so more expensive.The Ebersbaecher hydronic heater Mod D5 E is very powerful, small and light weight and with very little energy consumption.
In lowest position 7170 BTU @ 0,07 gal/hour Diesel fuel and 12V/ 1amp

https://www.eberspaecher-na.com/file...Y_01_26_15.pdf

Yeah, almost instant hot water but if a cabin heater is needed in colder climate at max, power this little thing puts out almost 18,000 BTU
Yeah, with Diesel fuel but at least NO PROPANE

And of course there is the already mentioned solar solution with the evacuated tubes that will not cost You any power at all besides a little 12 V water pump.

ANYHOW, under those conditions a 5 gal extra fuel tank will go a long way.

Now comes the next question... where is the water coming from. You have not much room for big water tanks and the weight is also an issue. So for extended cruising and plenty of water for gally and showers You gotta produce it on board and that means a water maker.

Well, with the Honda You can also do that and a lot more. You have AC and DC power.

The Maldive is a very popular model. I am sure everybody who wants one will chew his fingers for this one and even if it´s not the complete set up as I mentioned will realize soon what needs to be done to complete the upgrade.

Of course You can also use propane to heat the water but I refuse to argue with the propane guys because it´s a different dimension

[noelex 77]

For a great shower, all that is needed is a tank/container to hold hot water, a pump and a shower rose.

Add hot water and mix with cold until the temperature is ideal, and then enjoy a great shower without any tap fiddling needed to set the temperature. As well as a more pleasant shower, the premixed water temperature saves water. The water in the piping can be pumped back into the tank/container unit until the cold water is eliminated. Perfect.

The main advantage of the above system is the water can be heated in a multitude of ways. The temperature of the hot water is not critical, as it mixed in the tank/container until the water is the perfect shower temperature. We prefer 44°C (110 °F) in winter and 41°C (106°F ) in summer.

To heat the water in summer we generally use an electric kettle as there is plenty of excess solar electricity. In winter we tend to use the diesel Reflex heater. Other options are a kettle on the propane stove or direct solar heating via a dark container left on deck.

In our case the tank/container is under the seat (which hinges up) next to a couple of laundry tubs. The removable bar is mainly for hanging wet clothes to drip dry but can be used as handhold or even crash bar in offshore conditions.

[Pizzazz]

I missed the point about the outboard. Sorry. I do not think solar would be enough in your case. Since you already carry gas, a gas generator is your beat option for charging and heat, ie the aforementioned Honda. I would not worry so much about the inverter and extra batteries at this stage. I would setup the generator nicely somewhere, even consider a modification for a remote start. Then run the generator for cooking, water heating and charging. You may need to figure out a sound proofing mechanism. Dip the exhaust in water, enclosures, etc. Nice large gas tank.

Conceptually, it could be ideal to find a way to mount a generator to the outboard engine, then you get the benefit of a remote start, quiet water cooling, etc. One idea could be to modify the outboard to drive a power takeoff, then the have one unit driving the propeller, another driving a generator. Too complicated perhaps. However, I definitely see the benefit of an outboard/generator combo. Is it that hard to retrofit a power takeoff for about 2-3 hp that then drives a generator taken from a Honda 2200i?

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Fine if you use it in the cockpit. Must not be used inside as clearly stated in their instructions.

Hi Boatpoker - now having not read all about the product, I would say although this doesn’t quite resolve all my issues of wanting a single system, although maybe it could still work out,.
Looks like I need one of these, this would fit right in the external locker alongside the propane bottle ( which has a vented under the deck )
Best sized item I have come across, maybe I could even consider running the hot water for heating.

I have Propane ( and a Gas Alarm ) but not overly worried by having Gas on board and I have a 25hp Diesel Beta, For propulsion
won’t be adding a Gas generator, and other systems suggested don’t give instant heat or add to much weight.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

Hi Boatpoker - now having not read all about the product, I would say although this doesn’t quite resolve all my issues of wanting a single system, although maybe it could still work out,.
Looks like I need one of these, this would fit right in the external locker alongside the propane bottle ( which has a vented under the deck )
Best sized item I have come across, maybe I could even consider running the hot water for heating.

I have Propane ( and a Gas Alarm ) but not overly worried by having Gas on board and I have a 25hp Diesel Beta, For propulsion
won’t be adding a Gas generator, and other systems suggested don’t give instant heat or add to much weight.

Sharing a propane storage locker with a non-ignition protected propane fired water heater would be . unwise and invlaidate insurance here in North America.

Not sure what "vented under deck" means but it does no sound sound like a drain leading directly overboard from the lowest point of the locker as it should.