Air Conditioner, which one???

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by skipmac

First for the refrigerant, the technician is required by law to recover the Freon in your unit before working on it. Unless it's contaminated I think he should be able to reuse it, maybe run it through a filter/dryer as he replaces it in the system. Should only require a little extra to top off if any at all.

Typical procedure for automotive A/C repairs is to use a refrigeration service unit that has the ability to store the refrigerant for re-use in the same system.

For various reasons, this isn't the usual procedure for residential, commercial, and marine systems. While the refrigerant is still recovered, it is typically recovered for recycling. The recovery equipment typically does not have the capability to store it for re-use.

Therefore, the correct refrigerant must be available for recharging.

The waters are further muddied by the fact that there is a switch underway from R-22 to R-410A and various other substitute refrigerants. R-22 is still available but is running around $40 a pound wholesale.

[pbaumann]

Thanks, skipmac, all useful suggestions. I was aware of the tricks - they didn't work. I then had a technician come in, he tried the same tricks and one new to me (it was cool that day): to make the valve toggle from heating to cooling, trick the thermostat by blowing your breath on it: it didn't make the valve toggle. He put his meters and stuff to work and determined that it was the reversing valve. I'll ask the A/C guy about catching the refrigerant and reusing it.

[pbaumann]

Thanks, Jammer. Since the technician I work with wants me to drag the unit to his shop, I may as well ask him, if he has the capability to recycle the refrigerant. Michigan seems to have moved to the new refrigerant, which is cheaper, but there is concern it may not be as effective in older units.
Any thoughts on what would be required after removing the reversing valve altogether and resolve to just cooling?

[sailjumanji]

Might be that Dometic has more complaints due to more units sold. Plus people tend to post about problem with units, and be silent on trouble-free ones. Everyone expects trouble-free to just the the norm

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by pbaumann

Thanks, Jammer. Since the technician I work with wants me to drag the unit to his shop, I may as well ask him, if he has the capability to recycle the refrigerant. Michigan seems to have moved to the new refrigerant, which is cheaper, but there is concern it may not be as effective in older units.

Don't let him "upgrade" your system if you don't want them to. They can still get R-22. They just don't like to use it.

<soapbox> The ozone depletion problem was mainly due to things other than refrigerant and was mainly about bromine compounds used as fumigants and soil sterilants. These compounds are far more destructive to the ozone than R-22, and are still in use albeit with a production cap. The burdensome regulations on refrigerants aren't scientifically necessary but for reasons of politics were added anyway. Part of the reason has to do with HVAC shops wanting to get rid of low-end competition. And this has all caused no end of hassle and poor performance for the owners of affected equipment. Don't like the way your A/C performs with the new refrigerant? They'll be happy to sell you an upgrade. </soapbox>

Any thoughts on what would be required after removing the reversing valve altogether and resolve to just cooling?

They would just use a splicing sleeve to solder the lines together in pairs. Go fot it. I have a Dometic heat pump on my RV. The reversing valve works, but it is loud.

[Spindrift NH]

FWIW I have a 1600 btu Mermaid that was installed by the po in 2000, not sure how often he used it but it has worked flawlessly for me for 2 1/2 cooling seasons in SC. I start it up in April and run it through to October pretty much 24/7(dog on board).
I’m on a 424 so should be adequate for your 422.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

Might be that Dometic has more complaints due to more units sold. Plus people tend to post about problem with units, and be silent on trouble-free ones. Everyone expects trouble-free to just the the norm

Quite correct although one does see some comments from owners that love their gear. I try to jump into threads with positive comments when I have something to contribute.

I asked my question with no knowledge of market share from the various makers, how many total installed units or any other relevant data. So of course this is far from an accurate, scientific survey and results are most certainly skewed (but who knows in which direction). However, it's the best I can do without devoting an inordinate amount of time setting up a formal study.

Now if you wanted to do some in depth research on the issue I would be thrilled to see the results.

[sailorboy1]

Skip I bet you finish this research just in time for winter boating season, ...................................... in 2021

[aluijten]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Right now I'm leaning towards door number three but open to arguments to do otherwise.

I was also wondering about the frigomar option (reliability). On the other hand the fact that it’s able to start the compressor slowly instead of in a bing bang scenario, make me believe this will actually extend the lifespan of the compressor. If you configure the correct capacity, it also means it will run at less then full power most of the time with little or no start/stop cycles, again extending the lifespan. It’s mostly the start/stop cycles that kill the compressor, not unlike a car engine. When it’s running lubrication prevents the wear on the compressor.
You also have no problem with start up current anymore, killing your fuses if you are having a bad day.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by aluijten

I was also wondering about the frigomar option (reliability). On the other hand the fact that it’s able to start the compressor slowly instead of in a bing bang scenario, make me believe this will actually extend the lifespan of the compressor. If you configure the correct capacity, it also means it will run at less then full power most of the time with little or no start/stop cycles, again extending the lifespan. It’s mostly the start/stop cycles that kill the compressor, not unlike a car engine. When it’s running lubrication prevents the wear on the compressor.
You also have no problem with start up current anymore, killing your fuses if you are having a bad day.

The Frigomar definitely wins in terms of technology and specs. They also list a pretty good dealer and service network in the US. Just wish they weren't expensive.

Not sure longevity is that important to me. Reliability yes, but since I only use AC a few times a year I'm not that concerned about how quickly the compressor may or may not wear out.

[rourkeh]

If you want something that will last with excellent customer service, buy the Flagship Marine unit.
If you want an A/C unit with a great dealer service network for warranty repairs (which you are definitely going to need) buy one of the other brands..

[Tortuga's Lie]

I might as well throw in my opinion too.............
On my previous boat, a Tartan 37, I installed a Flagship 16,500 BTU unit with the heating capability. Never had one problem, cold enough to hang meat in the summertime but was somewhat noisy as the unit was just behind a louvered door in the main saloon. Very happy with the unit overall after about a decade of using it.
My new boat (to me) did not have A/C units but would require two units. I went with a 16,500 BTU and a 9000 BTU. I considered a few different manufacturers but decided that the Flagship has many things going for it that overcomes their minor issues.
Pros:
*robust build quality, quality components
*includes installation parts(sea cocks, strainers, duct, etc which accounts for a higher price, other manufacturers do not include install kits)
*components are user replaceable
*no circuit boards, uses relays
*parts are available at HVAC suppliers
*aluminum drip pan that slopes (no standing water)
*electric heat, which means you have heat regardless of water temps, even on the hard
*good support for installation

Cons:
*no variable speed (they say it would freeze up if you slow the compressor)
*can be noisy
*limited/no warranty

Now after two years of use, I am still very happy with my Flagship units. I installed the forward unit under the V-berth and the noise is primarily coming from the movement of the air and I'm not sure how to get around that. The aft unit is in the lazarette behind the aft cabin. similar noise with the air movement.
A friend of mine installed a Mermaid in his J boat, his unit was just as loud or louder so not sure if you can have a real quiet unit that has any volume of air movement.
I cannot speak to the quality of other manufacturers, I just know the Flagship units are well made and should present few problems if any from my experience with them.

[Davidhoy]

I recently found an 11k BTU Dometic A/C unit on closeout at West Marine for $380! Yes, new old-stock, in the box, with all the parts (ducting, hose, through hull, strainer, hose clamps, everything!) except the water pump, all for $380. I installed it this past Sunday, and it works perfectly.

That said, there is one thing to consider with Dometic, and that is their warranty coverage. I believe their warranty is two years from date of installation, but no more than three years from date of manufacture. Now, at only $380 in, I really am not too worried about warranty. But others might be. Just be fully aware of their warranty period if this is important to you. Not bashing them, as I've generally had good luck with their products. I have a 16k BTU unit up forward, and this new unit replaced an old unit in the aft cabin that the previous owner had already removed.

Regards,
David.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Now if you wanted to do some in depth research on the issue I would be thrilled to see the results.

I know that a friend installed a Dometic Vector Turbo 16k unit at the same time as I did my DVT 8k, and his is still working too. This is an exceptional unit though, IMO, with the composite pan that really drains out and prevents standing water, and our copper coils are only showing a little green after ten years. As for broader control group, Seawind installed the DVT and its DTU 16k successor in its larger cats as an air con option. We have an active Seawind owners Facebook group as well as a listserver. I can't remember seeing any discussion of problems with the units on either. Now they are going with the DCU (Dometic Compact Unit) in the Seawind 1160, as it is rated at 18K - which a few in Florida and Texas have said the extra capacity is needed due to the amount saloon glass windows, etc. Unfortunately the DCU doesn't have the composite pan, but can be ordered in stainless. That's what I am going with on the new boat.

[Pascals Wager]

Can anyone explain the difference between the Webasto S series and the FCF, both stand alone units?