ABS Pipe for sanitation runs

[Celestialsailor]

First I will start by saying I have to be taken into surgery in order to get a nickle cut out of my pocket...yes, I'm cheap. I have researched around here, other boat forums and found little information. Peggy Hall (The "head" Mistress) that is a member of this forum and others, kind of ok'd it. But I was wondering the permeability of it. The 1 1/2" white PVC hose seems to last a few years, then starts gassing off the bad stuff. I was wondering if I could use lengths of 1 1/2" ABS black pipe to substitute in for the longer lengths? The vented loop and deck run could also be ABS and then terminated into the high quality Shields or Trident non-odor hose.

To replace my entire system would require approximately 30ft. I could eliminate more than half of that considering the run from the head to the y-valve is one big curve.

Any input on this?

[cal40john]

I used PVC schedule 80

Two of the threads found from this forum's custom google search


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...se-148743.html


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ad-165029.html

Search result page -
https://cse.google.com/cse?siteurl=w...ilet+pvc&sa=Go

[MikeHoncho]

PVC is easier to locate smaller components. I’ve had mine in for 3 years. No regrets although I’m about to remove all of it and go with a desiccant toilet.

[peghall]

I'd use schedule 80 instead of ABS...easier to work with, more readily available and costs a bit less.

That said...sanitation hoses have come a long way in 15 years. We're no longer limited to flexible PVC that permeates in as little as 90 days. The best ones cost a good bit more, but at least one of 'em is worth it: Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose is top rated now, better than Shields or Trident and a lot easier to work wth, also warrantied for 10 years against odor permeation and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking. You can mix it with sched.80 if your need to save money makes it worth the effort to create all those unions you won't need with that hose.

Fisheries Supply has it for the best price on the west coast...and they sell it by the foot (many retailers only sell 50' coils). Fisheries Supply Raritan Sani-Flex Sanitation Hose

Send me a PM if you'd like to brainstorm ways to simplify (shorten) plumbing runs.

--Peggie

[Bowdrie]

Jeepers Batman, 30' for a 28' boat?
Anyway, I've recently done the whole job, all new plumbing runs and a new holding tank.
Used some PVC pipe for much of it and am really satisfied with the results.
It's not been long enough to ascertain anything about permeation, but I'm quite sure it'll be much better than any hose, of any brand/name.
This place has all kinds of fittings and do-dads;
https://marinesan.com/pvc-fittings/

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by peghall

I'd use schedule 80 instead of ABS...easier to work with, more readily available and costs a bit less.

That said...sanitation hoses have come a long way in 15 years. We're no longer limited to flexible PVC that permeates in as little as 90 days. The best ones cost a good bit more, but at least one of 'em is worth it: Raritan SaniFlex hose RaritanSaniFlex hose is top rated now, better than Shields or Trident and a lot easier to work wth, also warrantied for 10 years against odor permeation and has the added advantage of being so flexible it can be bent almost as tight as a hairpin without kinking. You can mix it with sched.80 if your need to save money makes it worth the effort to create all those unions you won't need with that hose.

Fisheries Supply has it for the best price on the west coast...and they sell it by the foot (many retailers only sell 50' coils). Fisheries Supply Raritan Sani-Flex Sanitation Hose

Send me a PM if you'd like to brainstorm ways to simplify (shorten) plumbing runs.

--Peggie

Thanx for chiming in Peg. By Schedule 80, do you mean the gray schedule 80 rigid pipe that you see in hardware outlets? Compared to ABS pipe, it is more expensive, which is fine when we're talking $26 vs. $15 a length. My concern is which one is more permeable...ABS or PVC.

At over $16 for the Raritan at 30 ft. address's the whole issue of cost.

[boatpoker]

Full time liveaboard/cruiser since 94' . ABS was one of the first improvements I made. Have since done it on two other boars with only a few inches of sanitary hose to connect to head and tank. Super cheap, super easy and never an issue.

[Bowdrie]

While I was doing my refit I spent many hours on the web, pouring over every perinate detail or review I could find on the various hoses.
There were products by Trident and Shields that were just as highly rated as the Raritan product, (it's not made with magic,) in regard to permeation, IIRC, one of them, (I forget which,) even had a "lifetime" against permeation.
The big thing about the Raritan hose is the flexibility, making it easier to use in convoluted/confined spaces.
As to the "bad" white PVC hose, (#148,) I removed sections of it that were 28 years old, and had never had ANY permeation or leaks, not one drop or whiff of odor.
Those sections were as clean as the day they went in.
Why? because they were in sections of runs in which effluent was never allowed to sit, and they were never bent in a tight enough radius to cause any physical stress on them.
Clean and efficient routing/layouts, along with shortest possible runs gives the best operation.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Full time liveaboard/cruiser since 94' . ABS was one of the first improvements I made. Have since done it on two other boars with only a few inches of sanitary hose to connect to head and tank. Super cheap, super easy and never an issue.

Can you tell me what size ABS you used and it was 1 1/2", how you adapted down to slip into the 1 1/2" Sani-hose?

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

While I was doing my refit I spent many hours on the web, pouring over every perinate detail or review I could find on the various hoses.
There were products by Trident and Shields that were just as highly rated as the Raritan product, (it's not made with magic,) in regard to permeation, IIRC, one of them, (I forget which,) even had a "lifetime" against permeation.
The big thing about the Raritan hose is the flexibility, making it easier to use in convoluted/confined spaces.
As to the "bad" white PVC hose, (#148,) I removed sections of it that were 28 years old, and had never had ANY permeation or leaks, not one drop or whiff of odor.
Those sections were as clean as the day they went in.
Why? because they were in sections of runs in which effluent was never allowed to sit, and they were never bent in a tight enough radius to cause any physical stress on them.
Clean and efficient routing/layouts, along with shortest possible runs gives the best operation.

All good stuff!

[peghall]

Sch 80 pipe IS PVC, it has thicker walls than Sch 40 making it less brittle in cold temperatures. Both are 100% permeation resistant. This article describes the difference between ABS and PVC
https://www.commercial-industrial-su...and-pvc-pipes/

Inflation has driven Fisheries price for SaniFlex waay up! Defender (east coast) still has it for $10-$12/ft. Shipping from CT may or may not cancel out any saving by buying it from them.
Raritan Sani / Flex Sanitation Hose at Defender

IMO a combination of sch 80 and hose would be better than all hard pipe because it eliminates the need for hard pipe unions that must be "glued" using the correct type of sealant. SaniFlex's ability to bend so tightly without kinking coupled with it's 100% resistance to odor permeation makes it worth the price for the few feet you'd need for bends and the "soft" connections needed at toilet, tank and thru-hull.


That's my $.02 worth anyway.


--Peggie--

[Rumrace]

There are a dozen reasons marine sewage pipes are UL approved for above the waterline. There is a reason for the metal wire other than support.
Mike Holmes May say doing it right is shopping at home depo is for boats. Very few boats parts there. B&G and Excel
Ridged plastic pipe is used by folks who swear at you and call you stupid to deflect I guess. It’s UL approved for permanent attachment to residence and commercial buildings. It’s no designed for boat sewage or nuclear waste products either
People quote the boating book on UL ETL CSA CE merged but the UL CSA code for marine sewage code existed for years.

[Rumrace]

Sorry to be clear their was a ULC code for marine sewage below waterline and above. The UL Number is printed on the hose.
The hose from the tank to pump out collar is massive to handle pump pressure. It’s typically same hose as a pump out.

[peghall]

You kinda lost me, Rumrace... I don't know what you mean by "pumpout collar."

1.5" ID has been the standard size for both toilet and tank discharge--both to pumpout and overboard discharge pump--for decades. For most of that time, Jabsco was the only toilet mfr to use a 1" ID toilet discharge line, but even they have been forced to use a discharge fitting onto which both a 1" and a 1.5" will fit. Other toilet mfrs have also adopted dual sized discharge fittings, to accomodate buyers who already have 1" hose/pipe installed. Thread-barb tank fitting mfrs have yet to be that accommodating. Hose/pipe wall thickness is the only variable.

--Peggie

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by peghall

You kinda lost me, Rumrace... I don't know what you mean by "pumpout collar."
--Peggie

Please don't encourage him...

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by peghall

Sch 80 pipe IS PVC, it has thicker walls than Sch 40 making it less brittle in cold temperatures. Both are 100% permeation resistant. This article describes the difference between ABS and PVC
https://www.commercial-industrial-su...and-pvc-pipes/

Inflation has driven Fisheries price for SaniFlex waay up! Defender (east coast) still has it for $10-$12/ft. Shipping from CT may or may not cancel out any saving by buying it from them.
Raritan Sani / Flex Sanitation Hose at Defender

IMO a combination of sch 80 and hose would be better than all hard pipe because it eliminates the need for hard pipe unions that must be "glued" using the correct type of sealant. SaniFlex's ability to bend so tightly without kinking coupled with it's 100% resistance to odor permeation makes it worth the price for the few feet you'd need for bends and the "soft" connections needed at toilet, tank and thru-hull.
That's my $.02 worth anyway.
--Peggie--

Your 2 cents worth is always appreciated.
...It is my intention to use a combination of hard ABS for the few straight runs...1) holding tank to deck fitting, 2) y-valve to thru-hull fitting, 3) Vented loop...all using the flex hose as connectors. I'm estimating I can cut the amount of hos I need in half that way.