12 volt watermakers, which one?

[lizardofoz]

Rainman are much less expensive and easy to use and maintain. You really should be looking that way for what you need. I am a supplier of Rainman in Thailand and Malaysia and was at their Sydney factory a few weeks ago to look at the systems and coming upgrades and R&D. I have used and sold the system out of Trinidad also a good system and well priced. made my own out of components. Cannot beat a Rainman. Where are you located? I supplied one unit Petrol driven by a Honda 1.0 generator and you can switch the gen to economy mode after start up. I sent one to Mexico for a guy doing a trip from there to Pattaya Thailand - he has a blog called Sailing Doodles. 70LPH will run out at around 5200US$ 230/115VAC landed depending on where you are

Originally Posted by Falbala60

For sure Rich ... ( I would not discuss your business on the forum, but you did it first ...) I want just to understand in the deep.

Your systems are in between the very low price and very high price... very good and I would jump into BUT ! ... seems we are far from "the paradise where GOD provide everything free to Adam et Eve " :-)

I need 60 li/h and your smallest WM give 20gal (76 li) , that's OK,
BUT (please correct me if I have bad calculations ) with your 1 HP AC motor that draws 9.3A at 120VAC = 1116W ... HUM what will be the reaction of my 2000W Victron inverter having to supply over 12VDC at 100A during a couple of hours ? and we need to add the boost pump with 8.2A.

This is my fear !
Spectra, Aquabase, and other intensifier systems needs about 25A for the same... at around 10-14K$.

Question : I did not explore deeper yet, but if you use a DC motor for the high pressure pump ? From my batteries plus 1000W solar... could it work the nice sunny days ?

Water cost (just for the joke)
I would LOVE to avoid a 10-14K$US purchase that will raise the cost of water to ...
150 days x 5 years x 60 li/d = 45000 li or 11,800 gal / 12,000$ = 1$/gal
plus the power cost ... and if you use less the cost will raise...

With your system, it will be 50c/gal and marinas charge about 25c/gal ...

OK so this is the price for LIBERTY !

Still jugling ...

[FlyingScot]

Ecotech makes quality products. I have one but haven't used it yet. It came on the boat. It's not exactly what I would have bought being 13gph and 38 amps (12vdc) on the main pump.

Seems well built though. I think I would have just saved up for the Spectra or gone with a higher output AC unit.

[jmh2002]

This is all interesting info too, as an alternative option, so I'm just quoting these posts to collect them together:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

In the beginning...

I started out with the earliest efficient "energy recovery" RO system, the PUR (now Katadyn) PowerSurvivor 35. It worked OK, but there were lots of reported problems with the plastic pump body and overly complex design. So I took the opportunity when presented to upgrade to a PowerSurvivor 40e (using the old motor and membrane), and bought a spare membrane to turn the old pump into a manual one for emergencies. It has worked very well. And was very popular among cruisers until the Spectra unit came along, which cost a bit more but had a much larger output and was also efficient. But that was then...

Today the components to make an RO unit are readily available, and there is no need to pay those ridiculous prices. My friends on 2 boats heading out to go cruising were both looking into building their own systems - until they found this: https://seawaterpro.com/ Why anyone would consider paying $5k when they could get an RO for $1.5K is beyond me. But of course they aren't spending a lot of money on advertising so there is a reason no one has mentioned them yet. Take a close look at them.

Greg

Originally Posted by Henk Koornstra

The advise of the posts deal mostly with small water makers as they are 12volt. I would like to bring up the advantages of a larger watermaker which we have used now for several years although I do not know the size of your boat. My system consists of a CruiseROWater watermaker, producing 30 gph, and a Honda generator. The advantage is that it is all powered by 110 Volt, and the generator has alternate uses for back up battery charger and in general for using 110 Volt power tools. The system is very affordable and I appreciate the alternate uses of the generator. But you need to have room for the generator. The parts of the watermaker can be spread around the boat.

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

The Seawater Pro is a disposable Hp pump water maker that isn't rated for sea water. So yes it is less money but do you want to be replacing the heart of the system (Hp pump) or purchase a unit with components rated for the marine environment?

20GPH piston pump 120v AC units start at $4000, but will last.

There is a place for disposable pump systems...the question becomes is your boat while out cruising away from easy shipping of replacement parts one of them?

Originally Posted by Falbala60

I forgot to mention that I DO NOT RELY on Karcher pump, I plan to install the Stainless Pump ... that one or a similar.

Are you less severe in that case ?
With the price difference (2000$ to 6000$) I can have many priming and high pressure pump as spares.

What are the next weak links ?

Here is a quote from the Rainman site, which I like from a reliable cruising perspective:

Originally Posted by Rainman site

...we wanted to eliminate as many components that don't enjoy a saline environment as possible. Our petrol desalination system is a purely mechanical device without any electrics other than the spark plug and kill switch. The electric version has only the 1.1kw fully sealed induction motor and on/off switch. We have no electronics or software in our desalinators.

And the quoted posts above are definitely interesting info for those on a budget or just wanting to be more simplistic. Whether you go for Seawater Pro in particular (there are other suppliers of all these off the shelf parts of course), then certainly having as many generic parts as possible, and no or limited electronics is the way to go.

The added idea of using Honda type genset which can also be used for other purposes too gives a lot of potential options (in and out of the water).

Seawater Pro says the following (without actually giving the exact details):

Originally Posted by Seawater Pro

The system can operate on a Honda EU2000i portable generator and spare enough power to charge your batteries at the same time. Using a small Honda generator you will make ~110 gallons of water with 1 gallon of gas.

In particular for Seawater Pro (or a similar pieced together system), they do offer some upgrades for the HP pump, LP pump, and the membranes, and of course there will be misc other gauges and plumbing required, plus a fresh water flush loop, etc.

So let's call it more like 2000USD for a simplistic 20gph system.

I agree that at a higher budget, a hitech watermaker that makes a lot of GPH and can run for long periods on DC is a great option. But if we are trying to go all (or mostly) DC then add the big battery bank, plus the big solar array and wind generator, and all a sudden that is a huge investment beyond practical reach for some cruisers.

So a Seawater Pro type option certainly leaves a lot of room in the budget for a complete setup, plus upgrades, spares, a genset if appropriate (which may negate the need for any other significant charging source too), an inverter, etc, etc, when compared to some of the other watermaker options available.

Food for thought for some boats and for some people.

One thing to consider though if going the portable genset route is do you have a suitable location to run it, where the noise will not be intrusive, and when the boat is underway? Or will 1 or 2 hours running at some point during the day when at anchor be enough (20GPH / 80LPH). What about for passages?

Oh, strictly regarding a watermaker, rather than the total overview that I took here, there is of course nothing to stop you using a Seawater Pro type option to save money, but still using a conventional DC HP pump, or an AC pump + I inverter option instead if you prefer to mostly run off batteries, solar, and wind.

This thread is an interesting discussion

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Falbala60

I want to have the lowest noise and using the genset or engines is quite adding a real energy cost to raise the price of water gallon and hassel you many hours per day. The other noise I fear is the rotary pump/motor if they can't be sound isolated.

I think that this is a super nice way to go, for cruisers that can afford and have the space to fit, the expensive watermaker, as well the battery bank, solar array, and wind generator to make all this work on a practical basis.

It is possible of course. From a technical perspective I have always marvelled at how Steve Dashew used to set up his boats as all DC, even including air conditioning! But yes, big battery bank, and huge solar array, and a lot of thought about efficiency, insulation, etc, etc. So, big initial capital outlay too.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Leo Ticheli

We just returned from four months cruising and our little Spectra 150 worked flawlessly; we never thought about conserving water, at least no more than we normally would, and we were never short on power. I've got a bump over 500w of solar and a wind generator.

It might be helpful for others could also give some exact details about how many people onboard, amount of water produced/used, electrical consumption, how often you ran the watermaker, how big your battery bank is, and was this all without any charging from the engine or a generator?

So, all from the solar and wind? How much solar wind generating capacity do you have (sorry, it wasn't clear)?

And, for comparison, am I right in thinking that the Spectra 150 costs about 6000USD?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by lizardofoz

Rainman are much less expensive and easy to use and maintain. You really should be looking that way for what you need. I am a supplier of Rainman in Thailand and Malaysia and was at their Sydney factory a few weeks ago to look at the systems and coming upgrades and R&D. I have used and sold the system out of Trinidad also a good system and well priced. made my own out of components. Cannot beat a Rainman. Where are you located? I supplied one unit Petrol driven by a Honda 1.0 generator and you can switch the gen to economy mode after start up. I sent one to Mexico for a guy doing a trip from there to Pattaya Thailand - he has a blog called Sailing Doodles. 70LPH will run out at around 5200US$ 230/115VAC landed depending on where you are

Rainman definitely seem to have a lot going for them. However, unless I was buying it as a fully self contained independent backup system, I think it makes more sense to go for an electric model and then either use your own existing power supply onboard or buy a separate Honda type generator instead.

The reasoning being that the separate generator can then also be used for other separate activities too.

[Franziska]

Rainman has modular systems which can use an existing genset as well.
If using that combination the noise issue is there, but as you run two noisy equipments at once that probably matters less.

I love the fully 12V idea, but that means not only an expensive desalinator but expensive wind and sun power systems as well.

Great if one can do this. We hope to get there eventually.

Still until you have the funds for it, the AC driven units have a lot to them. At least if you have a genset already.

Now if you could set the Rainman AC unit up to run occasionally and alternativly with a much reduced smaller output setting from an inverter that would be great as backup or also when you happen to have excess power from the wind and sun.

Not sure if they have this option.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

It might be helpful for others could also give some exact details about how many people onboard, amount of water produced/used, electrical consumption, how often you ran the watermaker, how big your battery bank is, and was this all without any charging from the engine or a generator?

So, all from the solar and wind? How much solar wind generating capacity do you have (sorry, it wasn't clear)?

And, for comparison, am I right in thinking that the Spectra 150 costs about 6000USD?

I'm not the original poster, but will provide our answer. Spectra 150D. Two onboard. Fresh water usage avg 10 gal per day. Dishes, showering, rinsing after swim, drinking. Two solar panels 120 watts each. 300 amp hr house batteries. We ran unit every 2-3 days. In afternoon when sunny and bank full so watermaker draw covered completely by solar. Averaged 7 gal per hour at 8 amps draw. Absolutely loved the unit. Quiet. I sold the boat, kept the unit, and am going to install on our new build Seawind.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I'm not the original poster, but will provide our answer. Spectra 150D. Two onboard. Fresh water usage avg 10 gal per day. Dishes, showering, rinsing after swim, drinking. Two solar panels 120 watts each. 300 amp hr house batteries. We ran unit every 2-3 days. In afternoon when sunny and bank full so watermaker draw covered completely by solar. Averaged 7 gal per hour at 8 amps draw. Absolutely loved the unit. Quiet. I sold the boat, kept the unit, and am going to install on our new build Seawind.

Oh, and we carried a Honda 2000 Gen as backup for four months cruising. Ran it four hours, ONCE. We have twin outboards and never ran those for power Gen only. And before someone says it, no, I don't really care that you get by with less water. We met some of these cruisers in the Bahamas. And some we surprised with six gal collapseable jugs of RO water. From their reaction, you'd think it was a case of beer! Having watermaker onboard also meant we weren't slaves to needing to move for water. And we could stay remote as long as the food didn't run out!

[ReneJK]

Earlier this year I bought a watermaker off the local craigslist



Watermaker – The little wonder 200 – SV Blue Pearl : a Dutch family sailing


I paid the tiny sum of $150 (yes, one hundred and fifty !!) and didnt expect much of it .
After installing it in Blue Pearl we've used it every other day the last 100 days and it produces about 20-22 liters PH @ 13.8 volt



It runs off our 670Wp solar system (2x 335Wp panels mounted on an arch) after the battery banks have been recharged (typically around noon or 1pm) so I don't care much about the amp draw as long as it doesnt exceed 30-40Ah as this is what our panels produce



even the 20-22 liters PH provided us with enough 'free' water to make us independent ie take showers after swimming , take showers when we feel like it (needed with 2 girls on board) washing up , run the washing machine and do laundry (off the interverter) drinking water etc etc



We often leave the WM running while we go out for a few hours to explore or swim and turn it off when we get back .


As we have 3 watertanks of 200-250 liters each I make sure to only fill 2 of them with water from a marina or other shore source and dedicated 1 for RO water , this way I know which tank can be used for flushing etc



anyway , we're very happy with our modular 'little wonder 200' and it would be on my short list if I had to buy one new

[Franziska]

Cool info René !

[drcat]

A suggestion
Look at Sun Pure Watermakers. They have a website, are located in USA and have 2 models both priced at $2650 plus $150 shipping
1) a 12v 1/2 hp model with 21" membrane making 8-12 gal/hr
2) a 1 hp 120v AC model with 40" membrane making 30 gal/hr
A youtube vlogger couple installed the 12v version about 6-8 months ago- find on youtube at either Sailing with a Purpose or Adventure Adrift. They got a discount due to doing a video and having youtube followers/subscribers. They seem to be happy with set up . Had minor leaking issue that was solved with new part. I have no relationship with the company, I just follow Sailing with a Purpose.

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by drcat

1) a 12v 1/2 hp model with 21" membrane making 8-12 gal/hr

that might be a 'tad' optimistic ?

I timed and measured my product water with a stopwatch and 2 liter empty bottle and timed how long it took to fill the empty bottle .

Using 2x 21" membranes , a feed pump and HP pump I came to 5-6 GPH (20-22 liter per hour) in quite salty Med waters @ 27 degrees celsius water temp.
If at all possible I wouldnt mind seeing a video where they time how long it takes to fill an empty bottle ?

[a64pilot]

I have 1000 W of Solar, and it is by no way even close to enough power to run a straight non energy efficient Watermaker, not even close.
A Spectra, yes, but not just a regular Watermaker with a DC motor, unless it’s a tiny thing.

In my opinion you need to decide if you are going to have a generator or not, if you are, go with a high output AC Watermaker, if you are not going to have a generator, go with a very efficient DC one, which is usually a Spectra. Often a generator and a Watermaker is less money than a Spectra, but you do have a generator to have to listen to and care for etc.

Just me, but I would want a Watermaker that was modular, and meant to be installed, that way I could separate the pieces and install so I lost very little storage space and didn’t have to drag things out and hook up to make water. I want to open a thru hull and flip a switch of valve or two is all, not unpack the Lazetette to make water, I want to be able to make water underway too, and that sort of means an installed system, not one laying on deck.

Now just me again, but I really did a lot of research at the beginning of this cruising thing, and didn’t really see anyway out of a generator, not without making sacrifices that I didn’t want to make, cause I wanted to take the best care I could of my expensive battery bank and I wanted to be able to wash clothes without a bucket, make ice etc., and a Kilowatt of Solar won’t get me there.
So I ended up with a high output AC Watermaker. I can run it once a week for a half a day and make 120 gl of water, actually more, but by the time you back out the start up time and the water you use to do a good fresh water flush etc., it averages out to about 30 GPH.
We also do all our washing and make ice and charge our battery bank during that time of course.
I can’t do that on Solar alone. I probably could with a Spectra and a Lithium battery bank, but that is way more money than a generator

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So I ended up with a high output AC Watermaker. I can run it once a week for a half a day and make 120 gl of water, actually more, but by the time you back out the start up time and the water you use to do a good fresh water flush etc., it averages out to about 30 GPH.
We also do all our washing and make ice and charge our battery bank during that time of course.
I can’t do that on Solar alone. I probably could with a Spectra and a Lithium battery bank, but that is way more money than a generator

Thank you A64,
as I have not my Lucia yet my posts (but I am not the originator of this one) was to get opinions of actual users and help me in the decision.

Actually, from the money I think it is OK to spend for FRESH WATER FREEDOM, with our 530 li (140 gal) tank, you and others convinced me to get a smaller WM, like 25-30 li/h rather than the 60 li offered by FP at 12,000$. Having a smaller that runs silently for longer time should be OK and is much cheaper ... 50% less cost.

It will definitely be DC and with a need of about 10A I think the 1000W solar will drive that when nice weather 2 or 3 times a week . (Are you OK with that ?)

It will NOT be with a rotating pump because of the potential noise, because if you can enclose the booster pump in an insulated and fan vented enclosure, you can't with the HP pump, and the 80A at 12VDC.... I follow you.

It will be with easy access of replacement parts in Esat Coast and Bahamas.

So ACTUALLY IT COULD BE a Spectra Ventura 200T...

the next decision does it worth to have the FULL MPC control for an other 3000$ if the skipper is "quite a bit technical".