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30-06-2006, 10:56
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Island, BC
Boat: 1969 30 Mariner Sedan Cruiser
Posts: 760
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Why not electric engine powered boats
Electric engines are powerful, strong enough to move the modern train diesel, which is an electric powered engine. Wouldn't it make more sense to put in an electric engine to power a boat, with a generator as the power source, thus giving a boat a dual use engine, a better one for charging batteries, etc on the go and on the hook. I'm thinking sailboats in this thread.
Think bow thrusters on large ships; the electric propulsion need not be that big, but it seems you could get a sufficient sized electric engine as motive power.
I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this, so what is the flaw in the design.
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30-06-2006, 11:03
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ontario
Boat: PDQ32
Posts: 265
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electric drives
this topic is up to 126 replies in the multihull forum - you might want to check out the discussions there - it has been a topic in articles in most major sailing magazines over the past year - definately a technology showing promise at the moment.
__________________
henryv
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04-07-2006, 17:09
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cat in New Zealand, trawler in Ventura
Boat: 46' custom cat "Rum Doxy", Roughwater 41"Abreojos"
Posts: 2,044
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You might also check out the "Electric Propulsion" group on Yahoo. Over 5,000 posts on electric engines in boats.
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27-06-2016, 11:21
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Jensen Beach, Fl
Boat: O'Day 34
Posts: 392
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
It takes 700 pounds of batteries to provide power equal to 1 gal of gasoline Big flaw
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27-06-2016, 11:35
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#5
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
If you use a generator to power electric motors to drive a boat you have losses in each step so you lose a good bit of efficiency.
Also, when you add the price of a generator and electric motor to give power equivalent to the diesel engine you're replacing it will cost double to triple the cost of a new diesel engine AND transmission.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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27-06-2016, 11:44
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huron, Ohio
Boat: Albin Coronado 35(1972)
Posts: 640
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Btimmerman49
It takes 700 pounds of batteries to provide power equal to 1 gal of gasoline Big flaw
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yeh ... well ...
how long does it take for most sailboaters to use up a gallon of gasoline?
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27-06-2016, 11:52
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huron, Ohio
Boat: Albin Coronado 35(1972)
Posts: 640
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
the naysayers have spoken ...
You know, the naysayers were around long after steam and gasoline moved boats, and most boats kept their sails cause they didn't trust or have faith in the Steam & IC engines.
AND ... when talking about electric ...NO ONE wants to consider using the sails more often and the engine(motor), much less often ... or for that matter, to consider 3-4 knots as adequate speed ...
We'll see what happens if the price of petrol hits $4 or $5 ... or more ...
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27-06-2016, 11:55
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#8
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by SURV69
yeh ... well ...
how long does it take for most sailboaters to use up a gallon of gasoline?
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Sailboat? 30 minutes to an hour.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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27-06-2016, 11:59
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#9
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by SURV69
the naysayers have spoken ...
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Translation. Naysayer - a person who understands science and economics and how they apply to real world applications. Also, a person that bases decisions and actions on facts instead of wishful thinking.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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27-06-2016, 12:06
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#10
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,920
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac
Translation. Naysayer - a person who understands science and economics and how they apply to real world applications. Also, a person that bases decisions and actions on facts instead of wishful thinking.
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Ding...ding....ding....
Give that man a Gold Star because he nailed it.
__________________
Rich Boren
Cruise RO & Schenker Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration
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27-06-2016, 12:31
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Vaitses/Herreshoff Meadow Lark 37'
Posts: 1,135
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Btimmerman49
It takes 700 pounds of batteries to provide power equal to 1 gal of gasoline Big flaw
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Everything about electric motors is superior to internal combustion in every way. They're lighter, smaller, far more reliable, and create far more torque at lower RPMs and so don't need complicated transmissions.
Everything, that is, except for energy storage. Batteries suck.
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27-06-2016, 12:33
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#12
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,920
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdege
Everything, that is, except for energy storage. Batteries suck.
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So lets install a Diesel engine to run the electric motor...ya..that's the ticket...lets add more complexity to a cruising boat because it sounds cool.
__________________
Rich Boren
Cruise RO & Schenker Water Makers
Technautics CoolBlue Refrigeration
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27-06-2016, 12:47
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huron, Ohio
Boat: Albin Coronado 35(1972)
Posts: 640
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac
Translation. Naysayer - a person who understands science and economics and how they apply to real world applications. Also, a person that bases decisions and actions on facts instead of wishful thinking.
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"real world application", dictate that we're talking about SAILboats and I know in this area the number one concern of sailors is how to protect the unused fuel at the end of the year.
For those who need "speed), relatively speaking, and the need to "push water", in a sailboat, the need for 1000lbs of battery and a 20kw engine might make sense ... or nonsense as it may.
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27-06-2016, 13:30
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#14
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by SURV69
"real world application", dictate that we're talking about SAILboats and I know in this area the number one concern of sailors is how to protect the unused fuel at the end of the year.
For those who need "speed), relatively speaking, and the need to "push water", in a sailboat, the need for 1000lbs of battery and a 20kw engine might make sense ... or nonsense as it may.
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Ya sail boats that may need to make way when there is no wind, or up a channel against the wind, or into a harbor where sailing is prohibited.
If you want an electric engine go for it, technically it isn't all that difficult. If you want more than 20-30 minutes of range at cruising speed then you have to install a massive generator because batteries suck.
None of this is new territory. Most people want to be able to motor further than 5-6nm, if you don't then go electric. If you do then your stuck with liquid fuels.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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27-06-2016, 13:39
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,002
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Re: Why not electric engine powered boats
Quote:
Originally Posted by SURV69
the naysayers have spoken ...
You know, the naysayers were around long after steam and gasoline moved boats, and most boats kept their sails cause they didn't trust or have faith in the Steam & IC engines.
AND ... when talking about electric ...NO ONE wants to consider using the sails more often and the engine(motor), much less often ... or for that matter, to consider 3-4 knots as adequate speed ...
We'll see what happens if the price of petrol hits $4 or $5 ... or more ...
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We just came out of a period when petrol at the dock was running $4-5/gal in the states.
It's still in that range or higher in the EU.
No mass produced electric cruising boats available...so I guess we saw.
To the OP: This has been beat to death if you do a search of this forum. If you are willing to accept drastically reduced performance, electric is viable today but it is no where close to meeting the capability of a good diesel engine at a similar price.
Once you add a diesel generator, any claims of better reliability go out the window as you have the same reliability of a diesel propulsion engine plus all the gear to convert that power into electricity and back to mechanical power.
Also don't get suckered into the magic electric HP. For a cruising boat, HP is HP. Unless you are wanting to brag about your 0-6kt times, it's irrelevant (automobiles have different performance requirements that do benefit from the low RPM torque of an electric motor).
Ultimately, it's the size of the fuel tank that kills the electric dream.
Update: And to the point about diesel electric trains, it's more about the transmission than anything else. Imagine trying to operate the clutch on 5 3000HP locomotives simultaneously to get a 100 car train to start moving. Then try shifting all 5 3000HP locomotives simultaneously to second gear. The transmissions would be huge and massively complicated. On the other hand, electricity is relatively simple to apply and control for a single guy in the lead locomotive.
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