Rudder "Gybe"

[Barra]

Hi

Have had a strange problem crop up with my rudders since they were worked on last haulout. Rudder is on delrin bearings which were sanded back a little to help with a stiff steering problem.

2nd sail and the rudders jammed then came loose with some force. appears after diving on them that they maybe dropped down around 3cm on that sail. Boat yards answer - put in a couple of delrin washers between the quadrant and the top bearing to hold the rudder back at its usual height. hmmmm

Took the boat out today and something I can only describe as a gybing rudder led to some close calls! ie turn the rudder 10 degrees and once the turns gone far enough for water pressure to back the rudder it would slam over in the direction of the turn to the rudder stop with tremendous force.

Im thinking the bearing(s) have dropped down and basicsally arent being engaged? Boat yard says some cables must be loose but thats crap. Im thinking its gonna need a haul out to see just what has happened down there

Has anyone seen anything like this before to help me push the yard to haul back out?

cheers
barra

[colemj]

Your boat has hydraulic steering doesn't it (the Catana 401 does)? I so, there are no cables to be found.

It sounds like you have separate issues. The rudder dropping down is one issue that doesn't seem to involve the bearings. The bearings do not hold the rudder up. Typically there is a washer bearing or top hat that the quadrant rides on. It is possible this was not reinstalled? Is it possible the quadrant was reinstalled higher up on the rudder post (less likely because most are drilled or keyed, but yours could be a square post)?

Your other problem of one rudder turning to the stops while the other doesn't sounds like a hydraulics issue -and also does not involve the bearings. Does the wheel turn too? You may have air in that line or cylinder or the check/equalize valve between the rudders/wheels is bad. Possibly the lockout valve that takes the wheels out of play on autopilot is funky or engaging.

I am only familiar with the system on the Catana 401, but Phisa may have changed this.

Mark

[Barra]

Hi mark

No hydaulics on the phisa just cables. And its both rudders that slam over to the stops not one sorry for not being clear. Have checked the visible parts of the steering with identical phisa next door to me and quadrants etc all look fine (except i have 2 washers on top of the top bearings now)

Any other thoughts on what might be the culprit?

Thanks

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

Hi mark

No hydaulics on the phisa just cables. And its both rudders that slam over to the stops not one sorry for not being clear. Have checked the visible parts of the steering with identical phisa next door to me and quadrants etc all look fine (except i have 2 washers on top of the top bearings now)

Any other thoughts on what might be the culprit?

Thanks

When you say " slam over " does the quadrant(s) follow and the wheel etc. you may have overbalanced rudders and the original stiffness was disguising that

Also you could have a lot of flow around the top of the rudder due to it dropping , this would cause some issues.

Dave

[Sailmonkey]

That sounds like balanced rudders that were put in backwards!!! I don't even know of that's possible with your setup though.

[boatsail]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

That sounds like balanced rudders that were put in backwards!!! I don't even know of that's possible with your setup though.

Makes sense.
I wonder if the feeling described is the same feeling that op got when reverse ing

[Barra]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

When you say " slam over " does the quadrant(s) follow and the wheel etc. you may have overbalanced rudders and the original stiffness was disguising that

Also you could have a lot of flow around the top of the rudder due to it dropping , this would cause some issues.

Dave

Yes quadrants ,wheels all follow as they should. It does almost feel as if they are unbalanced or back to front but ive dived on em and they look fine to me so thats not the issue either

[Barra]

Originally Posted by boatsail

Makes sense.
I wonder if the feeling described is the same feeling that op got when reverse ing

No reversing pressure never been this severely transmitted to the wheel via rudders before though of course there was always some tendency for rudders to shift in reverse if not locked off at yhe wheel.