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Old 23-02-2017, 00:37   #16
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I have two las seals on a cat we have owned for the last ten years. I have also just retired from twenty years repairing boats and owning a marina.
Do not try to install without hauling the boat, period. If you survive the sinking your insurance company will just laugh when you make the claim.
Personally I am about to remove these seals. They are good and cope well with errors in shaft alignment but.... If you wrap a prop it can cause the stainless rotor to be forced up the shaft. Then when you remove the wrap the seal is lost and water pours in. So be warned, and avoid wraps when mooring stern to.
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Old 23-02-2017, 01:26   #17
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Not sure if this is entirely correct. AFAIK, pressurised water is only required if you maintain 12 or more kts.

FWIW, I have a cutlass in the shaft log and I don't have water plumbed into the PSS; I do have a vent line from the PSS open to well above the waterline in order to save burping on relaunching.
+1

Only need an open breather line for (normal) sailboats. My set as per Wotname's, works perfectly.

Not sure I'd want to try the job in the water. Theoretically it should be fine, but oh boy, if something goes wrong it could be spectacularly bad.

How about careening as a compromise? Somewhere that you can keep the boat upright while you work.
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Old 23-02-2017, 05:18   #18
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I only glanced at many of the posts so pardon if this is repetitive.

Dripless seals usually need some lubricating water flow. Ours are supplied by a hose tapped off the main engine raw water pumps. Which means when mains not running, seal are not lubed, not good to let the prop free wheel except at very slow speeds.

You might actually be sailing slow enough for that to be OK. Or maybe you have feathering props. Or maybe you can lock you shaft (although perhaps at the expense of sailing).

But my point is maybe that's a question for the maker (PSS in your case; ours are Tides...).

A dock neighbor had some issues with his seals; debris or something, the shaft lube process went south, burned up the seals a bit so he had a serious leak, etc. They had to lift the boat to do all the replacement work. Wasn't rocket science, but they couldn't do it in the water.

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Old 23-02-2017, 06:37   #19
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

Call PSS and ask, I did, they whole heatedly recommend a pressurized water source if your cutlass is in the shaft log, for a 6 kt sailboat. Person I spoke with name is Kenneth Planck.
Also if you look at the instructions for the Lasdrop, bottom right, second page. It says in red Lasdrop recommends all seals be water injected, if this is not possible ensure it doesn't overheat at all cruising speeds.

PSS says above 12 kts all seals have to be water injected, Lasdrop 10 kts, but the only thing written in red on the Lasdrop instructions is that ALL installations are recommended to be water injected.

I don't know why you couldn't fix and or replace a bellows in the water. With my Sigma drive it would be loosen the clamp screws and slide the shaft back, my rudder will ensure you can't slide it very far, R&R bellows and slide shaft back?

However although I have not held one in my hand, from looking at it the Lasdrop seems to use a piece of exhaust hose, would that be much more likely to blow than your stuffing box hose?

I think from reading it seems the likely failure mode for a PSS is the shaft collar slips on the shaft, the fix for that is to install a shaft clamp like Mainsail did in his write up.

If I can find a couple of wrenches or crows feet to fit my stuffing box, I'll likely keep it, just now the keel is so narrow there, the only way to adjust it is to smack the nut flats with a hammer or a punch, and I hate percussion adjustments, smacking things with a hammer is not proper, unless its a nail.
Plus a maintenance free, just inspect every 6 months shaft seal is enticing.
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Old 23-02-2017, 07:55   #20
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I think it would be very risky to try and install the shaft seal while the boat is in the water. Paying for a haulout is good insurance that you won't sink your boat. And you can take your time and do it right.
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Old 23-02-2017, 08:07   #21
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

A couple things not mentioned. When we replace ours the first time (after 10 years of PO neglect), our shaft was corroded under the carbon bushings and had to be sent to a machine shop to polish. PSS recommends replacing the boot and bushings every 6 years. Removing the flange from the shaft might be a problem and require special tools. There are videos of guys using sockets to push the flange. I was worried about breaking or bending the flange. I eventually had the yard remove it and install the new PSS rebuild kit. Lastly, when installing the newer model PSS, our shaft log had to be cut by about 1" to make room for the new bellows (has the water-cool fitting).

If you know you can remove the flange without trouble, I think you could install the rebuild kit quickly enough without too much risk. I wouldn't try the full install in the water.
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Old 23-02-2017, 08:28   #22
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
However I don't want to pay for a haul and I can't see as how doing it in the water would be that bad.
If you decide to go ahead with it, maybe just wait until you have to do your next haul-out anyway... and do the work then.

??

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Old 23-02-2017, 09:36   #23
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

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Anyone installed one with boat in the water?
Yes, White Spot Pirates did, and you can watch her YouTube video of it in fact!



Starts at about 1:56.
But she has a smaller boat than you, so probably a prop shaft under 1".
Personally I wouldn't do it, and PSS recommends against it.
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:49   #24
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

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If you decide to go ahead with it, maybe just wait until you have to do your next haul-out anyway... and do the work then.

??

-Chris
Two years, I just had a bottom job done, literally last week. Prop shaft pulled, shortened, new cutlass, and while I was very adamant about using Gore packing, it has flax packing
I knew I was going to have an issue when I told them where the keys were and I was told we don't need to start the engine, so I asked how are you going to adjust the packing gland without running it? I was told, don't worry, its not leaking.
So on the way home (two hours) it didn't leak a drop, but was running at 165F though.
I'm just tired of the drama associated with this stuffing box, if I could get wrenches on it, then it wouldn't be nearly the issue it is

So we all say it's OK to change the packing in the water, I don't understand the difference with a dripless seal? Yes you have to disconnect the shaft and move it, but that is easy
Water ingress should not be that bad, no worse than with the packing removed?
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:50   #25
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I think the answer depends upon 3 things: (1) how well you work under stress, (2) whether you will encounter Dr. Murphy moments as water is gushing in, and (3) whether you have a backup plan if things go from wet to wetter.

Personally, I wouldn't do it. But then I have a friend who regularly pulls his depthfinder and speed senders out when in the water, replaces them and acts like it's no big deal. I see the 1 foot high column of water streaming in and freak out.
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:51   #26
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

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I won't go into too much detail, but I am about to get tired of mucking with my stuffing box and thinking can the thing and go with a PSS shaft seal.
However I don't want to pay for a haul and I can't see as how doing it in the water would be that bad.
Anyone installed one with boat in the water?
Ever done surgery in the dark with one hand up your own arse? It's like that, only considerably wetter.

I don't like to pay for hauls, either, but physics doesn't care about what I don't like.
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Old 23-02-2017, 09:57   #27
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I've sold hundreds of boats with these in them. They are nearly foolproof but are NOT fixable like a conventional packing in all parts of the world. They also have a lifespan of about 6 years and are recommended to be replaced at that time (read the instructions). That being said I have seen 15-20 year old boats with the PSS seal still there. On my own personal boat, I was about 30 days to leave for Florida and was doing a final check on systems and looked at the PSS shaft seal and the belows was twisted and had been leaking. If I was venturing further than the bahamas, I would bring a spare for a replacement.
When they are working they are great having a dry bilge.

I also would never do one of these installs in the water. If you have an issue and a real disaster happens, you might find out your insurance doesn't cover the sinking you had.
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:03   #28
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I've had PSS shaft seals on my last two boats (Catalina 320 and Jeanneau 45.2). Excellent factory support, trouble free operation, and only once have I had any water. The water was a result of the seal collar sliding down the shaft, and PSS now recommends installing a second 'back up collar' to prevent just such occurrence. When I bought this boat two years ago, replacing the OEM Volvo shaft seal with the PSS was the first item completed off my punch list. IMHO, you need to be hauled to install. Alan
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:14   #29
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

The replacement kit is $100, I wouldn't mind that every other year at haul out, but every other haul (4 years) for $100 is easily do-able too.
Most every boat out there with a sail drive has a similar but much larger issue, right?
If I go this route I may try to find someone who will haul me and leave me hanging in the slings during their lunch, it shouldn't take 30 min
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Old 23-02-2017, 10:15   #30
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Re: PSS shaft seal installation

I agree with Jeanneau 45.2, the PSS factory support is superb and this is a way better unit than Group Beneteau puts in their boats standard which is the volvo unit, but I will comment again, that I've sold 100's of Beneteaus (was a dealer for 19 years) and I never had an issue with the Volvo dripless seal but the boat yard here hated them and wouldn't install a replacement one.
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