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Old 08-12-2024, 12:26   #16
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

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Originally Posted by Hallwoves View Post
Thanks for the response. I will definitely be greasing the prop.
I just read the service/owners manual in its entirety and the stalling problem is mentioned multiple times. I never knew that the pitch was greater in astern by quite a lot and not adjustable, that might be a good thing where astern is 3 :1reduction and ahead is 2:1 The importance of lubricating the 5 grease points is made clear and there’s some discussion about low idle speed. Interestingly, Kiwi prop refer to blade angle as “pitch” (“24°fixed pitch in astern”), I‘m not picky about it, I use blade angle/diameter to get pitch on unidentified props but never seen the terms used the way kiwi prop does…..unless its a typo! Another puzzling thing is the mention of a couple of special considerations for Lombardini gearboxes, I have no knowledge of Lombardini making marine gearboxes so this might be a reference to the Techno drive, now rebranded to Twindisc fitted to Betamarine engines.
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Old 08-12-2024, 21:24   #17
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

That's great information thank you. Much appreciated.
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Old 08-12-2024, 21:53   #18
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

It has probably been mentioned already but what you are describing is what, unfortunately, gives Kiwi props a bad name.

Someone has neglected the very, very simple process of greasing it at each slipping. Honestly, it gives me the sh-ts, it’s such a simple process, it is clearly spelled out in the manual and every time there’s a problem with these props it turns out they haven’t been greased.

If you don’t grease it the blades will jam part way to being re-pitched by the hub bosses and you end up with a prop with infinite pitch.

I’ve been running Kiwis for years now, and like the people who’ve recommended them to me I’ve had no problem with reverse. Quite the opposite in fact, I love the excellent reverse thrust and the savage prop walk.

Pull the prop, clean it up, grease the blades and hub and it will be brilliant.
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Old 09-12-2024, 00:21   #19
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Great info. Really appreciate it.
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Old 13-12-2024, 07:43   #20
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Just a thought. Before going through the process of removing the prop, would it be possible to have a diver observe the prop at a safe distance while shifting from neutral to forward, back to neutral and then reverse. I had a similar issue years ago with a prop that had been serviced with the wrong type of grease. The grease washed out after a brief period and the feathering prop bound while transitioning from forward to reverse.

Because the prop bound up before it completely reversed its blades, the prop was way over pitched and would stall the engine.
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Old 13-12-2024, 07:45   #21
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Had a very similar problem with my Kiwi prop. The engine didn't quite stall but was working extremely hard, rpms at full throttle would not go over 900 and barely any reverse speed was made.

One of the blades was still in forward while the other 2 were in reverse, making it very hard to even turn the prop. Very likely a lube issue, as posted above.


Should this happen to you again:
I found that putting into forward for just a second (to get the blades all oriented for that), and then going in reverse (so that the blades are already in motion returning to the straight orientation because of the sprints) fixed the issue. Finished a several months cruise that way before pulling the prop, taking it apart, and fully servicing it (also replaced a blade, which is luckily cheap on the Kiwi prop)



I wish I had known that before the mechanic I had hired made my buy a new transmission (which, of course, had now effect).
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Old 13-12-2024, 07:55   #22
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

After lubricating the prop, be sure to "work" the prop by hand to ensure that the grease fully covers all the internal workings and is working easily in both directions of rotation. Had to lube mine every three months or so in the Eastern Caribbean, but love the props.
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Old 13-12-2024, 08:18   #23
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

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Originally Posted by Hallwoves View Post
... Our Bavaria 36 is stalling going into reverse. We have had the motor serviced and it is not the motor. The mechanic suggested it could be the feathering prop (Kiwi)... anyone got experience with this issues, any suggestions?
Is this a new prop? Or has it been on for some time?

I tried Kiwi Props for 10 years before I finally gave up on them. The problem is that they go to a high pitch in reverse. This wouldn't stall our engine, but it wouldn't let it get above 1200rpm. I've gone round & round with John (the Kiwi owner) but he won't budge. He claims this is a "feature", but if I'm in a crash-stop situation, I need the engine to come up to where it has max power, which is max-rpms.

I suspect that what's happening is that your Kiwi Prop isn't going completely into reverse, which can actually leave it open even more, at an even higher pitch, which might be stalling your engine.

I suggest that you take it off, get it serviced, & make sure that it's going completely into reverse, that the reversing pawls aren't hanging up, & that where they rub on the blades isn't overly worn (which would require replacement blades).
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Old 13-12-2024, 08:41   #24
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

The Kiwi prop needs grease, more grease, then grease it again! If sand and/or grit get into the hub, the propellor will not function properly. Failure to grease this prop is the biggest reason for failure!
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Old 13-12-2024, 09:23   #25
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

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Originally Posted by jheyland View Post
I found that putting into forward for just a second (to get the blades all oriented for that), and then going in reverse (so that the blades are already in motion returning to the straight orientation because of the sprints) fixed the issue. Finished a several months cruise that way before pulling the prop, taking it apart, and fully servicing it (also replaced a blade, which is luckily cheap on the Kiwi prop)
I do the same when my props start to misbehave in reverse. Just a quick "tap" into forward then reverse is usually enough to get the blades to flip. When this is necessary I know that it is time to grease the props. It is not hard to do in the water but one of the nice features of Kiwi props is that they are so easy to remove. Once the prop is off you can do a proper job of greasing on deck. Just back off the set screws a half turn or so then unscrew the hub with a 1/2" drive breaker bar. The set screws will pull the prop off the shaft without having to use a puller. Just be sure the key is facing up and you have a line on one of the blades to catch the prop if you drop it.
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Old 13-12-2024, 10:39   #26
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Stalling in reverse is a well known problem with Kiwiprops. The issue is that the pitch in reverse is very coarse and at low revs, many engines don't have enough torque to deal with it. If you can get the rpm up a bit before engaging reverse, it likely will solve the problem but not all gearboxes can handle doing that.

Unfortunately the reverse pitch on a Kiwiprop cannot be changed.
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Old 13-12-2024, 11:08   #27
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

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Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
Yeah , be careful with that, the Kiwiprop key is a thin one, most shaft keys are square cross section … not the kiwi prop one…. and if you drop it as the prop slides off the shaft it sort of ruins the day.
1000 rpm low idle is a bit too fast. Does it stall just putting er in ahead or only going from ahead to astern? Try dropping the idle back a bit and doing a very slow change into astern.
This is incorrect. The Kiwi prop uses a regular shaft key, nothing different from a regular shaft key.

Kiwi props have no adjustment in the reverse pitch. and the blades are free to pivot on their own. If the engine is stalling when you go into reverse but not forward I would look at fuel delivery. Can you get up to full RPM in forward?

1000rpm agreed is way too high of an idle 800rpm max
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Old 13-12-2024, 11:09   #28
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Try contacting the owner of kiwiprops. He is very good with communication and will be of help.
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Old 13-12-2024, 11:10   #29
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

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Originally Posted by sailorxyz View Post
Stalling in reverse is a well known problem with Kiwiprops. The issue is that the pitch in reverse is very coarse and at low revs, many engines don't have enough torque to deal with it. If you can get the rpm up a bit before engaging reverse, it likely will solve the problem but not all gearboxes can handle doing that.

Unfortunately the reverse pitch on a Kiwiprop cannot be changed.
Not sure its a well known issue with Kiwi props. I bought mine after asking around with a bunch of people at my club who have them, no one mentioned anything about experiencing stalling in reverse. Nor is is it something I've experienced with mine. But I do agree the 24 deg reverse pitch is a bit too coarse in my view to get full RPM in reverse.
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Old 13-12-2024, 11:16   #30
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Re: Kiwi prop causing stall into Reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
It has probably been mentioned already but what you are describing is what, unfortunately, gives Kiwi props a bad name.

Someone has neglected the very, very simple process of greasing it at each slipping. Honestly, it gives me the sh-ts, it’s such a simple process, it is clearly spelled out in the manual and every time there’s a problem with these props it turns out they haven’t been greased.

If you don’t grease it the blades will jam part way to being re-pitched by the hub bosses and you end up with a prop with infinite pitch.

I’ve been running Kiwis for years now, and like the people who’ve recommended them to me I’ve had no problem with reverse. Quite the opposite in fact, I love the excellent reverse thrust and the savage prop walk.

Pull the prop, clean it up, grease the blades and hub and it will be brilliant.
Well said, though I have to ask about the "savage prop walk" what is this your talking about? My Kiwi prop virtually eliminated the very sever propwak that I had on my boat in reverse. With my fixed blade the boat would do a 90 degree turn within a boat length when in hard reverse. with the Kiwi prop I go almost straight backwards in hard reverse. Its brilliant! though sometimes I miss the prop walk!
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