Yachtmaster & COLREGS

[Futureyachtie12]

Hi Everyone,

I’ve been looking at RYA Yachtmaster courses a fair bit and a lot of the schools advertise that they’re the most professional or the safest etc.

The syllabus says that I need to know everything in rules 1-19, but lots of people I’ve spoken to say that they just had to learn the titles or that they had learn three or four of the most important ones.

Is it commonplace to learn just a few of them, or to be told in advance which ones the examiner will ask you about?

[SailingHarmonie]

Is this a troll??? One post and he's stirring THIS pot?

But I'll treat it seriously: If you want a Yachtmaster certification you damn well better KNOW and UNDERSTAND the colregs. NOT the titles, Not the 3 or 4 most important ones. In fact if you want to drive a boat, any boat, I would tell you exactly the same thing.

"Lost of people" are telling you total BS.

[Futureyachtie12]

Hey,

Definitely not trolling and I appreciate your response.

I know it's my first post - I'm here because I want to ask more people than those I've met. Granted, 'lots' is an exaggeration; it's the majority of those I've spoken to (which about ten or so).

I don't know anything about sailing itself, so want to get more input from experienced sailors. Maybe YM isn't what I need to do right now, but it's what the superyacht recruiters are telling me to do before I can get onboard as a Deckhand.

And yes, the ten or so have been a mixture of Deckhands and OOWs - all on Superyachts.

[Nekton73]

I hold a YM Offshore with commercial endorsement. Throughout my training and examinations the expectation was that I would know all of the Colregs, completely. I was asked during written and verbal testing to repeat certain ones verbatim (Rule 5 for example). Others came up during practical examination, either while sailing or just as questions asked by the examiner. All were applicable at some point during the sea time I put in to achieve the certification and if I hadn't known them I likely would have caused a bad situation, or worse.



Learn them all, apply them at all times, act professionally. It will give you confidence. It will inspire confidence in those you sail with.



If I can offer something that may make it easier from the perspective of someone just starting out... don't feel overwhelmed by all of the information in the syllabus before you've even started. As you study and accumulate sea time a lot of it will (should) become second nature because you will have to apply it constantly. Take opportunities to sail in situations where you will have to exercise as many of the skills and pieces of knowledge as possible. Crossing the Atlantic will rack up a lot of sea time and miles, but it won't challenge you on many of the navigational, tidal, and colregs basics that you would get if you focus on sailing coastal and offshore on shorter passages. If you have the time, try to get on with one of the delivery companies and sail wherever they can send you. Almost all of the skippers I sailed with were happy to share more information than I could possibly absorb about the planning and execution of the trip and, if I chose to, I could keep busy every day learning and applying all the rules and skills I had to learn. I remember one time I got woken up by my 1st mate to come and look at a set of lights. The skipper was on watch at the time and he prompted me to identify them and recommend action to be taken. It was just a learning exercise, he of course had already decided what to do, but he knew I was trying to learn and thought it was a good opportunity to give me the experience of being woken off watch to respond to a challenging situation, something I might eventually have to do when I was skipper. When it came time to do my YM exam I had no worries about passage planning, navigation, pilotage, canal and lock transits, docking, mooring, boat systems, weather etc. because I had every chance to live it and practice it under the supervision of great skippers.



Good luck.

[PippaB]

Curious, have the “lots of people” identified which are the “three or four of the most important ones?”

And, how many of the “lots of people” have put in the time to be actual superyacht captains as opposed to people who have spent their entire career stuck at deckhand? There are a lot more deckhand positions in the industry than there are captain positions and “the majority” of people don’t make it from the former to the latter.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

I hold a YM Offshore with commercial endorsement. Throughout my training and examinations the expectation was that I would know all of the Colregs, completely. I was asked during written and verbal testing to repeat certain ones verbatim (Rule 5 for example). Others came up during practical examination, either while sailing or just as questions asked by the examiner. All were applicable at some point during the sea time I put in to achieve the certification and if I hadn't known them I likely would have caused a bad situation, or worse.



Learn them all, apply them at all times, act professionally. It will give you confidence. It will inspire confidence in those you sail with.



If I can offer something that may make it easier from the perspective of someone just starting out... don't feel overwhelmed by all of the information in the syllabus before you've even started. As you study and accumulate sea time a lot of it will (should) become second nature because you will have to apply it constantly. Take opportunities to sail in situations where you will have to exercise as many of the skills and pieces of knowledge as possible. Crossing the Atlantic will rack up a lot of sea time and miles, but it won't challenge you on many of the navigational, tidal, and colregs basics that you would get if you focus on sailing coastal and offshore on shorter passages. If you have the time, try to get on with one of the delivery companies and sail wherever they can send you. Almost all of the skippers I sailed with were happy to share more information than I could possibly absorb about the planning and execution of the trip and, if I chose to, I could keep busy every day learning and applying all the rules and skills I had to learn. I remember one time I got woken up by my 1st mate to come and look at a set of lights. The skipper was on watch at the time and he prompted me to identify them and recommend action to be taken. It was just a learning exercise, he of course had already decided what to do, but he knew I was trying to learn and thought it was a good opportunity to give me the experience of being woken off watch to respond to a challenging situation, something I might eventually have to do when I was skipper. When it came time to do my YM exam I had no worries about passage planning, navigation, pilotage, canal and lock transits, docking, mooring, boat systems, weather etc. because I had every chance to live it and practice it under the supervision of great skippers.



Good luck.

This is excellent advice. I have an IMO Yachtskipper 1st class with a commercial endorsement. I've been told that both my ticket and a Yachtmaster Ocean with commercial endorsement ticket is roughly the same as a USCG 200 Ton Unlimited (arguments that say otherwise are more than welcome).

Colregs need to become second nature to you. Rote knowledge. My wife (also a Yachtskipper 1st class) have been at sea for close to 7 years now, sailing over a goodly portion of the globe.
We are constantly surprised by how many leisure boat skippers do NOT know or understand the Colregs.

We routinely call larger ships on the VHF if there is going to be a close pass (say in the inlandwaterway up through canada/alaska) just to make sure we all understand everyone's intentions. Virtually every time the larger ships thank us for calling.

If you truly learn the Colregs, you will be respected as a professional skipper and there are few compliments as high as that

[leecea]

Shouldn't you be looking at the courses that are specific to the super yacht industry, if that's what you are aiming for. Maybe that's what is causing the confusion - perhaps some limited knowledge of COLREGS is required in the entry level positions. Seems that there are companies that offer a whole range of classes specific to different super yacht positions. Not sure if RYA is your best bet.

[StuM]

Maybe YM isn't what I need to do right now, but it's what the superyacht recruiters are telling me to do before I can get onboard as a Deckhand.

Apparently, you are not talking to the right "recruiters"

https://www.superyachtuk.com/careers/deckhand/

Deckhands do not have to have boating qualifications but having them is an asset. General seafaring skills are expected. Deckhands should ideally have some knowledge and experience of navigation, boat handling, engines and radio equipment.
Any skills or experience in any of the above mentioned tasks would be a distinct advantage over other candidates.
...
Qualifications and certification are not normally needed to become a deckhand – experience is generally more important, but RYA qualifications such as Day Skipper, Power Boat Level 2 and VHF/SRC Radio Operators Certificate or IYT Tender Driving Licence may be beneficial. As an alternative the MCA approved Yacht Rating Course is acceptable. As you progress you will be expected to achieve the MCA Yacht Rating Certificate.
You may be required to hold the MCA STCW Basic Safety certification, and if you wish to progress from the deckhand role this certification is likely to be required for higher positions.

https://www.flyingfishonline.com/sup...qualifications

3. What qualifications do I need to be a Deckhand?

There are three areas to consider when it comes to qualifications and experience. The first two are mandatory, the third depends on you, what work experience you have or job you have been doing to date.

ENG 1 medical required by all crew who work at sea. If you are thinking of becoming a Superyacht Deckhand we recommend you complete the ENG1 medical before completing Step 2.


STCW Basic Safety Training is a set of compulsory safety qualifications required by all crew in case there is an emergency onboard. STCW is a six-day course comprising; sea survival, first aid, fire fighting (great fun), and health, safety, and security.


Get some experience we will explain more below but you don’t have to come from a yachting background to work on a Superyacht.

However, it does help if you know the basics. Yachts want to see that you have a good work ethic, like the outdoors, and can get on with people.

[skipperpete]

Well, straight off the blocks you’re going to need STCW10 if you want to join the superyacht industry, that’s about $3,000 depending on your location and it’s required for crew on vessels over 24 metres.
After you get into the industry you can increase your qualifications but, again, depending on location and type of vessel, eligible seatime is limiting factor. Superyachts are better known for languishing in marinas and shipyards than being out at sea on a regular basis. [ATTACH]

[grantmc]

Futureyachtie12 it would help all, I think, if you, at the very least let members know the part of the world you're in.

The Maritime School in Nelson, NZ has prospective SuperYacht crew attend courses from all over SE Asia. The success rate of graduates finding positions as Deckhards is very good indeed. Web Site, including curriculums, click here. Course Highlights below (nothing about Colregs.)

There must be a school similar to this in your area of the world.

Jumping straight in to Colregs, whilst absolutely useful for Officers isn't necessarily the basis of skills for a deckhand on a SuperYacht. From friends I've had as deckhands on Super Yachts the biggest skill is cleaning. They clean it, then clean it again, and then clean one more time to be sure. And OK they might see parts of the world, but many report being treated like steaming turds to boot.

Course Programme highlights
Have you ever dreamed of working on a superyacht?

Study this course and you will open the door to an exciting career working on board luxury boats. You could find yourself sailing the Pacific one season, and the Bahamas the next. Crew members are currently in demand in this industry.

In just 12 weeks, you will get the practical experience and the skills and knowledge required to work under supervision as crew on vessels operating in unlimited waters.

This programme will cover:

Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers (STCW) basic safety certificate to be crew onboard superyachts both in New Zealand waters and internationally. This includes basic sea survival, fire fighting, first aid, personal safety and social responsibilities, crowd management and security awareness training.
RYA (Royal Yachting Association) certificates: Powerboat Level 2 and Personal Watercraft Certificate (Jet Ski).
IAMI (International Asssociation of Maritime Institutions) GUEST certificates in yacht interior, basic food service and introduction to wine, bartending and mixology.

You will also learn basic skills in food safety and barista, floristry, yacht deck maintenance, watchkeeping, diesel and outboard maintenance, and CV writing.

Students will need a good Police record, and have to pass a medical fitness assessment for the lifesaving and firefighting components.

[ChrisJHC]

If you do want to learn the COLREGS, I recommend getting an app and using that to rote-learn.

There are a number around but I like Imray Rules and Signals.

[Futureyachtie12]

Thanks everyone.

Honestly, I was a mixture of daunted by the volume of learning and a little concerned that, if it's essential knowledge, such a high percentage of the people I've met didn't seem to have to learn it.

There were some great insights here, though, so thank you.

[Uricanejack]

1st you don’t need to be a Yachtmaster to be hired as a deck hand.

STCW Marne emergency duties.
Plus a bridge lookout course or powerboat level of some kind.
The advantage of a Bridge Lookout course.
Not cheep but will reduce the Seatime required from 6 months down to 6O days to be certified as a STCW Bridge Lookout.

With less than 60 days or 6 month you can be a trainee.
Depends a lot where you are and where you are looking to find work.

As a deck hand you don’t need much more than a basic working knowledge of the collision regs. Every bit helps though. The ability to recognize vessels by light and shapes is helpful.

If you want to do the RYA Yachtmaster go for it.

If you want to get hired on a large supper-yacht as deck hand don’t waste your time and money going to sailing school.
Go to a proper Marine Training Centre. Take an entry level deckhand course. All the big crewing agents send recruiters to them.
You will also be eligible for other professional deck positions on all kinds of commercial vessels.
If you want you can choose to apply for the big yachts.

Your question was about rules and the need to know them. Yea you need to know them if you want to be in charge of a watch. And for any form of certification which certifies you to be in charge of a watch.

Again it depends on what you mean by “know”
You are not required to know all the rules by rote word perfect.
You are required to have a good working knowledge and understanding of the collision regulations.

You won’t learn it on a week long YM course.
You need a combination of experience and study, you can use some good books and even computer programs.
If you are lucky and get some time working as deck hand.
The best way to learn is from an experienced deck officer. By asking them questions particularly why are the doing what they are doing.

The good ones will refer you to a copy of the rules and get you to explain it to them.

When I am teaching someone,

I advise them to start with rule 3, Definitions.
For the simple reason you don’t know what you are talking about until you know what everything is.

First question.
What is a vessel?
If you don’t know you are wasting your own time learning anything else.

While the required knowledge is not learning by rote. For a good working knowledge there is only one correct answer to question.

It will take you a while to get all the definitions right.

In the mean time you start working on how to identify each of the different kinds on vessels you may encounter by day or by night.

After rule 3

Start working on 20 through 32.
How good do you need to be.

100’% accurate description of what the vessel is when I ask you.
If you miss a bit go read the rule again.

If you don’t know what you are looking at. How will you be able to decide what to do about it.

Follow this with 5, 6, 7 and 8.

Do you need to know them word perfect. No
But if I ask you how to determine a safe speed guess what the only acceptable answer is.

if is ask you to describe a what stand on vessel is?
If I ask you to describe what give way vessel is.

You need to be 100% right.

After this start working on 11 through 18 which are the basic collision regs for

Then finish of with the rest at you leisure.

I am just an M not a YM.

Deckhand as a good look out I expect you to be able to tell me you can see something and describe where it is.,

OOW on a 200t plus boat. You got to be able to tell me a hell of a lot more. It’s ok you start as a deck hand, I will help you learn.

You want to work on a 45 ft boat. go get a YM.

Even with a YM until you prove yourself you are just going to get a bucket, a mop and on a super yacht a chamois.

[Adelie]

Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

[Adelie]

Here’s the link to the USCG, website list of COLREGS and US inland rules.
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/navigati...es-amalgamated

I would agree with whoever wrote that rule #5 was the most important, if you’re not paying attention none of the other rules are good for anything.